Thread: New Class/Job in 2.2?

Originally Posted by Nahara

The tanks we have right now are fine and adding a new tank class without fixing the real problem (people not wanting to play tanks) will just offer a new job to the people who want to tank, and a new job for people who ignore if they don't like tanking.

But there is also the part where tanks want new stuff too. Many tanks already have WAR/PLD maxed out or close to it and are looking to dps/healing classes for more diversity. I like playing a tank but it does get old when both are currently almost exactly the same bar and extra combo or two. I already have ilvl 80 drg and smn but I'd drop my dps shenanigans in a second for more tanking goodness. Tanks aren't going to tank forever/always and adding more dps just makes it easier to drop tanking.

Originally Posted by Anatha

We really don't need another dps at this point in time, adding in musketeer will only make a serious problem worse. DPS can just plain forget about using duty finder without a tank or healer in tow, because you aren't getting in. Game seriously needs a desirable tank class.

On the other hand, a musketeer would complete the 2x2 look they have going right now (2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 melee, 2 casters.... 1 ranged)

While it won't *fix* the problem, it will address it to some extent. As soon as you add a new class, people tend to flock to it to check it out (novelty). Even if only a small number of people stick with it, you're still getting more tanks (a tank that swaps classes is still a tank, but a DPS or healer that swaps is now a tank).

That's the hope, but I honestly can't think of any time I've seen this pan out in an actual MMO.

Originally Posted by Sylari

On the other hand, a musketeer would complete the 2x2 look they have going right now (2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 melee, 2 casters.... 1 ranged)

Depends on where you are looking. Class wise, this isn't true so the imbalance exists before endgame with 2 tank, 1 healer, 2 melee, 2 casters and 1 ranged. Also SE sees both Magic and Ranged DPS as the same thing so based on SE's standards we have 3 Ranged DPS.

When you extend to jobs then you get your numbers with one of the Magic Ranged DPS turning into a healer as well.

No matter how you look at it, an imbalance of character class types will exist, so honestly there is no way to balance out what we have right now, at least not with adding only 1 class/job at a time. If we were to get a large expansion with a few classes/Jobs these are possible to balance, but a patch addition possibly not.

Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri

Also SE sees both Magic and Ranged DPS as the same thing so based on SE's standards we have 3 Ranged DPS.

No, they don't. DPS is divided into 3 categories: ranged (BRD), caster (BLM, SMN), and melee (MNK, DRG). You can tell by looking at the limit breaks: BRD shares its LB with healers, not with casters. Even if you want to talk "role", SE only sees DPS, which means that it lumps melee with magic and ranged. As such, there's never a case where you have Magic and Ranged considered together without the inclusion of Melee.

No matter how you look at it, an imbalance of character class types will exist, so honestly there is no way to balance out what we have right now, at least not with adding only 1 class/job at a time. If we were to get a large expansion with a few classes/Jobs these are possible to balance, but a patch addition possibly not.

Except that the devs don't have to fix the ratio all in one swoop. It's perfect fine to attempt the fix in increments (e.g. adding a new healer, then a new tank, then a new ranged DPS).

Originally Posted by Kitru

No, they don't. DPS is divided into 3 categories: ranged (BRD), caster (BLM, SMN), and melee (MNK, DRG). You can tell by looking at the limit breaks: BRD shares its LB with healers, not with casters. Even if you want to talk "role", SE only sees DPS, which means that it lumps melee with magic and ranged. As such, there's never a case where you have Magic and Ranged considered together without the inclusion of Melee.

With their change to the Wolves Den, Summoner, Arcanist, Thaumaturge, Black Mage, Archer, and Bard are all lumped together as "Ranged DPS". That's where I'm pulling the SE Standards. My Summoner has a healing LB. I used it when I did Haukke Manner some time back.

Originally Posted by Sylari

That's the hope, but I honestly can't think of any time I've seen this pan out in an actual MMO.

On the other hand what MMO hasn't had tons of DPS choices vs very few Tanking options. I am not saying adding new tanking options is going to suddenly make Tanks more common than DPS but PLENTY of people pick classes based on themes rather than just role. I mean there's a reason people want to say Thieves/rogue/ninja are a needed class when they'd just be another melee dps.

Both current tanking classes are simply not interesting. Paladin plays like a Knight and Warrior is a mix-up of what is supposed to be a Berserker but is a Viking(?). There needs to be a new tank option so I can go play it, something cool. Like Samurai. Or Dark Knight (not banking on this).

A new healing class could be cool but SCH and WHM are pretty damn good as it is now.

Well if you want to go into what's needed, you have to look at it from every angle.

In terms of classes, Tanks = 2, Healer = 1, DPS = 5 (Need a new healer Class)
In terms of Jobs: Tanks = 2, Healer = 2, DPS = 5 (Fairly well rounded, but DPS is odd number, making it an even seems like a good idea)
In terms of battle ability: Defense (Tank) = 2/2, Healing = 1/2, Physical Melee = 2/2, Magical Range = 2/2, Physical Range = 1/1 (Need a new physical range character)
In terms of demand: Tank
In terms of what players Play: DPS
In terms of Discipline: Disciples of War = 5/5 Disciples of Magic = 3/4

(the ones with #/# are Class and Job respectively)

Making a new tank has many what if scenarios and possibilities. Players will try it just to try it. This doesn't mean they'll dungeon with it, they'll just try it out. Could run Fates with them for some quick EXP. Though it may or may not fix the Tank issue. It will die out fast, especially if the Tank isn't vastly different from what we already have, which isn't very likely to happen. Will more people play tanks afterwards? Its not a question anyone can answer honestly because no one knows. Based on role, some people just won't play it for parties. Based on class, some may play it for the class, but at the same time just as many or more may not play it because of the class or even lack of diversity between it and the previous tanks.

Really, the chances of adding a new tank fixing the human error on the player's part isn't very likely and it does seem to have the same chances of the new tank class being used only for a short burst and then quickly forgotten or existing tanks changing to that new tank for playability, which does nothing for increasing the numbers. While I say its small, this is mostly personal opinion based on what I see daily both on forums and in game. Tank is just the least fulfilling class and you'd have to pretty much like the Tank before hand or be of a tank mindset to really want to stay as the class as a Main profession.

New Ranged DPS isn't something to completely ignore even with the Tank issue. Has potential to take charge over Bard, but Bard has some nice support and really is a support based class more than a damage dealing class, not that they cannot deal damage as I have heard the stories of solo Barding Primals.

New DoM is a personal favorite of mine and something I eagerly await, even if its not until Patch 2.9.

The ratio of classes available for Healers, Damage Dealers, and Tanks compared to the ratio of players that want to play those classes is something that has been refined over years and years of developing MMOs. The issue of there not being enough tanks really has nothing to do with how many tank classes are available, it's about how many players A) want to play them, and B) actually stick with them.

Now, it's true that more class options means more of a selection and players get more choices on which is more to their play style, however if you've already made up your mind to tank or to try out tanking, it doesn't matter if there are 2 choices or 5 choices, you're going to pick one. You may try out the other, but usually you'll lean towards the one that looks more appealing right off the bat or you may be the type to do research and go with the flavor of the month in regards to popularity and/or recommendation. Either way, you're rolling a tank.

cont..