Thread: New Class/Job in 2.2?

I just wanted to say, "Please no dps class, thank you in advance "

Originally Posted by Swear_Bear

I pretty much say this for all similar threads:

I want Chemist for puddle healing with a targeting system and maybe single-target buffs using stims or darts. DEX for main stat and uses TP as a resource.

I know it was mentioned elsewhere the only issue with Chemist is it already exists as a support crafting class, Alchemist. Chemist is just a healer that deals with Potion based skills and since the basic name is already in use, its doubtful the battle class will emerge with it already existing as a crafting class.

Originally Posted by Nahara

Lancer weapons can only really be used in one direction, too: forward as you thrust the weapon into your opponent.

You don't actually know anything about polearm combat, do you? Most of the "spears" and "lances" that DRG ends up using actually have more in common with a halberd or glaive than with a straight up spear, since they have enlarged blades at the end that are actually perfectly functional for slashing. They're generally most effective when thrusting because it maximizes pressure upon a single location, but such attacks are also reasonably easy to avoid/block/parry given the fact that they attack along a line rather than a plane (and blocking/parry are plane movement). Even with a spear, there's a lot of reason to swing rather than simply thrust because swinging with a polearm gives you both amazing leverage and a blunt object coming in at high velocity still hurts like hell.

Traditional scythes, however, are worthless in combat because they can only be used in a *single* incredibly inefficient way. Because of the inward curving blade that is parallel with the haft, the cutting edge is on the inside so that you have to get the blade behind whatever you're trying to cut before you can cut it, and the outside point, thanks to the curving blade, isn't even equipped to be used as a a piercing weapon (doing so would cause the blade to warp and crack).

Seriously, go look up *any* video on youtube about how to use a scythe. If you swing it in a purely rotational manner, it would just hit the haft without doing anything. You have to pull it inward so that the inner cutting edge actually gets to cut something. You can't do that in combat nor would you want to most of the time, given that the primary advantage of any polearm is the reach.

Originally Posted by OmegaNovaios

Actually some Chinese used to use Scythe like weapons until they combined it with the Spear to create the "Ji" (Chinese Halberd) which was superior to both the Scythe and the Spear.

First off, the Ji isn't a "scythe-like weapon"; it's a halberd, which, depending upon construction and era, combines the function of a spear (pointy end) with an axe (wide slashing blade) and/or hook (for shields and mounted opponents), not a scythe. Secondly, saying that something is "superior to the scythe" is like saying that it's "better than a garbage truck" for racing: neither the scythe nor the garbage truck are even remotely designed for the purpose in which you're attempting to use them for.

If you want to argue that a weapon shouldn't be used in a fictional game (where practicality doesn't hold any weight over appeal) despite having skill to wield a weapon effectively over the potential of a weapon itself then technically a DRG should try to focus only on halberds since the spear and lance are inferior as well.

There's a vast difference between "inferior" and "worthless". A spear *is* inferior in basic design compared to any of the many more elaborate polearms (they were popular in medieval warfare because they were cheap, which is an advantage in large scale combat but not so much in small group tactical combat), but that doesn't mean that it's worthless. A scythe, however, *is* worthless as a weapon: it is more expensive to manufacture than a spear and is actually worse for combat than a spear.

I'll admit FFXI made some terrible decisions, but there are also a LOT of good decision that were made in the development of the game.

"Good game design" and "success" are nowhere near strongly linked. Some of the most effective game franchises in the world are built upon terrible game design. FFXI was successful because it was released at a relatively early part of the MMO epoch with a very powerful series backing it up (much like how Galaxies and TOR both had the SW name backing them up and WoW had Warcraft; people were already familiar with the universe/world/lore and had a preexisting emotional/mental connection to it). The second allowed them to attract a large player base right off the bat, and the first allowed them to keep those players around long enough to form a long term relationship with them (there's a certain threshold where, once a player has been subscribed for a given period of time, there is a negligible drop off in subscriptions, barring catastrophe or halted updates).

FFXI's success is less a testament to the quality of the game and more a testament to the loyalty that people have to the FF series (and their chosen game after becoming emotionally invested in it). Everquest was *incredibly* successful, but I doubt you'd see a lot of people discussing all of the amazing game design choices they made.

Just want to add in that both Scythe and practically all Pole Arms can be used the same as a Bo Staff adding in a different style for fighting. While the argument itself is pretty worthless as it was also stated that this is a fantasy game where real world physics and use don't have a lot of say on what can and cannot be done...I mean look at the Magitek Armor and the Highwind, neither of those would work in the real world.

While the Scythe is inadequate with use, it can be used in a fight. A Killing blow is just much harder as you have to be in a favorable position to be able to pull the scythe into the opponent while they are ensnared within the cutting edge. Sickles are used in a very similar manner when you have to use them to fight with. Practicality wise, yes, they are both cumbersome and nearly impossible to use, but that doesn't mean they cannot be used.

That being said, I don't see it getting much use outside of a DPS weapon, while I'd like to see it on a DRK, I can't if its based off the GLD. DRK would require a new class in order to use the Scythe and I think it would be better fitted to a more sinister dark art such as Necromancy...IF they don't give Necromancer to the Arcanist cause a common weapon for a Necromancer is a Grimoire and their playstyle would already match the general set up of an Arcanist. Possibly a DPS class with more focus to Debuffing and pet manipulation than the SMN with unholy healing abilities.