How To Fix Summoners

[Kevee]

This is exactly why I stopped PvPing.

Tired of it being solely about gear/gear grind.

I miss the first year of WAR..



ITT: Whining about timed burst(on a 5 minute CD)+overgearing.

If you let a SMN 3 DoT you+Rouse+Spur+Enkindle for a 100-0 finish(against undergeared people), something is wrong. That's ~9s of free reign on you, and ~5s of casting.

DRG/WAR can put out just as burst, it's just that..They're melee. SMN just has an easier time doing it.

Balance around the class, not the gear. Your numbers have no bearing when Gear trumps all.


Also, people saying "but the developer said so!"

Yes, the developer also said MRD/WAR was fine and didn't need any buffs. "We were just doing it wrong."
Or the infamous "Just zoom out your camera!"

Developers are not infallible.


Edit again:
I'm not saying SMNs are weak, either. We're top tier.
However, it takes time and can be countered.
In addition to this, we can't reliably see the true power of any melee class due to netcode limitations and the jumping issue.
A knee-jerk reaction to nerf Summoner, when it's really a huge gear difference, is not valid. At all.

[Nenin]

If you let a SMN 3 DoT you+Rouse+Spur+Enkindle for a 100-0 finish(against undergeared people), something is wrong. That's ~9s of free reign on you, and ~5s of casting.

Oh wow, I had no idea you had to cast two whole abilities to set up your burst. That changes everything.

/sarcasm

I've fought a disturbing number of SMN who start the fight by Swift-casting Miasma. How exactly am I supposed to stop them from hardcasting ONE spell when they still have Surecast and Equanimity?

I hope you realize defending that burst strength and setup requirement is equivalent to saying: If you ever let a geared BLM cast two Fires on you (one if he's lazy and swift-casts the first), and then 'let him' Scathe a couple times, you deserve to be globalled.

[xxalucard]

Oh wow, I had no idea you had to cast two whole abilities to set up your burst. That changes everything.

/sarcasm

I've fought a disturbing number of SMN who start the fight by Swift-casting Miasma. How exactly am I supposed to stop them from hardcasting ONE spell when they still have Surecast and Equanimity?

I hope you realize defending that burst strength and setup requirement is equivalent to saying: If you ever let a geared BLM cast two Fires on you (one if he's lazy and swift-casts the first), and then 'let him' Scathe a couple times, you deserve to be globalled.

Really? A black mage with swiftcast + sleep & a sleep pvp skill is criticizing summoners for "only" having to cast 3 spells & 3 pet abilities & fester + energy drain? That's at least 8+ things, uninterrupted, with only one chance in a 20-second window (since rouse and spur only last that long and have a 60-90 second recast time) to take someone 100-0. And that's assuming they don't get a single heal the entire time.


"If you let a geared BLM cast two fires on you." I had to stop taking you seriously right there. BLM's don't cast fire in pvp. They cast sleep, and an occasional flare if it will finish someone off.

Your opinion is of less value when you have no idea what you're talking about.


PRO TIP when fighting Summoners: if you cast purify it kills our dots and our fester will do 0 to you. You have the power to nullify our burst by using it at the right time. A black mage, however, can just re-sleep you for another 15 seconds. If he re-sleeps the healer, that's usually game over without any burst needed.

[Nenin]

Really? A black mage with swiftcast + sleep & a sleep pvp skill is criticizing summoners for "only" having to cast 3 spells & 3 pet abilities & fester / energy drain? That's like at least 8+ things, uninterrupted, with only one chance in a 20-second window (since rouse and spur only last that long and have 60-90 second recast times) to take someone 100-0-- assuming they don't get a single heal the entire time.

"If you let a geared BLM cast two fires on you." I had to stop taking you seriously right there. BLM's don't cast fire in pvp. They cast sleep, and an occasional flare if it will finish someone off.

Your opinion is of less value when you have no idea what you're talking about.

I can't tell if you're trolling or you're really that detached from reality. That last line got me though lol.

[Kevee]

Oh wow, I had no idea you had to cast two whole abilities to set up your burst. That changes everything.

/sarcasm

I've fought a disturbing number of SMN who start the fight by Swift-casting Miasma. How exactly am I supposed to stop them from hardcasting ONE spell when they still have Surecast and Equanimity?

I hope you realize defending that burst strength and setup requirement is equivalent to saying: If you ever let a geared BLM cast two Fires on you (one if he's lazy and swift-casts the first), and then 'let him' Scathe a couple times, you deserve to be globalled.

And then they have no swiftcast tri-disaster or resurrection for a minute.

Yes, it is equivalent to that. How is it not? If you let one class or the other nuke away, they will burst you. Have you ever been Fire-Fire-Swiftcast Flare'd? Yeah, it hurts.

Especially since it's only bursting that much due to a GEAR DIFFERENCE.

[Nenin]

And then they have no swiftcast tri-disaster or resurrection for a minute.

Yes, it is equivalent to that. How is it not? If you let one class or the other nuke away, they will burst you. Have you ever been Fire-Fire-Swiftcast Flare'd? Yeah, it hurts.

Especially since it's only bursting that much due to a GEAR DIFFERENCE.

I agree that it's terrible Swiftcast usage but they can get away with it as long as the burst drops someone.

It's not equivalent because BLM can't actually global you with instant casts after casting two Fires lol, I was saying imagine if they could. The closest you can get is 3x Fire, hardcast a Flare and use a Firestarter proc as soon as the Flare hits. Then Convert + Swiftcast + Flare. That's 11.5s of casting and 14s for the whole rotation. If luck is on your side you can start with a Fire + Firestarter proc or Fire III. The first cuts the total casting time down to 9s but ups the rotation time to 15-16s. The second takes 10.5s casting time but is much easier to interrupt and it relies on the first Fire proccing Firestarter (40% chance)