Damage Formula Thread

[Viridiana]

Also, just ran the numbers for Fester.

There is probably a massive difference in the formula for magic users.

DTR: 262
INT: 494
WD: 69 Magic Damage
Formula puts Fester(300 potency) at ~577 damage.
Mine hits for ~735-780

Maim and Mend II?

[Kevee]

Maim and Mend II?

Sigh.

I'm stupid.

[Viridiana]

Sigh.

I'm stupid.

Happens to the best of us.

[EasymodeX]

See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3SjEzeUE#gid=0

From chocobro, which I noticed you posted in.

I originally removed all the datapoints from that spreadsheet because they didn't fit my requirement of "accurate min/max" (some of the max/min metrics were under 1.10, which means it's likely that either the max is too low or the min too high). I'll go back through and re-assess and re-pull some of those datapoints that look more legit. The other problem is that the second tab doesn't use Heavy Shot, which has a higher potency and will result in clearer values. I want to avoid 100 potency attacks where possible.

As another data point: Highest Fester I've seen is 804, lowest is 728.
Still currently on the dummy, but that's it for now.

Thanks for the testing. 804/728 is 1.1044, so the max or min values are likely 1 point off. Edit: or they might not be, and at numbers that high it doesn't really matter too much.

ALSO, is the formula supposed to represent the average, or the base from which +/- 5% is supposed to come from?

Both? The formula just aims at the base value before +/- 5%, which should also be the same as the abstract average value. Although, I have revised the formula a bit since original posting. I'll continue to revise it with new data and post an update later this week.

[Firesped]

This makes sense since casters do not get an autoattack.

Casters do have autoattack, but there is no animation for it. I have observed on Summoner, that I was doing damage when my weapon was drawn with my pet attacking the target. When I was trying to figure out if STR effected pet damage.

[EasymodeX]

Ran through solver several times after adding kevee's fester datapoint, kenji's b3, as well as a higher DTR (325 using buttons) + damage modifiers (Heavy Thrust +15% and BFB +30%) to gain a higher-clarity full thrust damage point.

Current results:

WD*.2714745 + STR*.1006032 + (DTR-202)*.0241327 + WD*STR*.0036167 + WD*(DTR-202)*.0010800 - 1
WD*.2714745 + STR*.1006032 + (DTR-202)*.0241327 + WD*STR*.0036167 + WD*(DTR-202)*.0022597 - 1



I also imported Eien's Bard shots. Some of the ranges have dubious max/min values, but they seemed to match from a sanity-check perspective.

I uploaded the spreadsheet I used here: http://www.fileswap.com/dl/h8Dzf1GmVN/

... if anyone wants to do further testing.

Beyond that the formula results seem to match reasonably well with the abilities tested.


Wtb an Allagan-geared BLM with >300 DTR to eat some HQ buttons and load up Raging Strikes AF3 Flare to get some high-magnitude data.

[Kenji1134]

Raging wont have much of an effect as far as meaningful data, just 30% bigger numbers.
Ive got 287 Det atm, with HQ buttons I should have 300+, dont remember how much HQ buttons give.

Um, let me try to find another caster so I get the party int buff, then ill just spam a few dozen AF3 Flares on dummies and give you the results.

K, proper testing with Flare takes ages... plus my group partner was having internet issues and was DCing, so I only got 32 datapoints.

69 WD - 491 Int - 301 Det (with HQ Buttons)

Damage Crit? Uncritted
1160 FALSE 1160
1160 FALSE 1160
1161 FALSE 1161
1163 FALSE 1163
1164 FALSE 1164
1170 FALSE 1170
1170 FALSE 1170
1171 FALSE 1171
1173 FALSE 1173
1184 FALSE 1184
1186 FALSE 1186
1190 FALSE 1190
1207 FALSE 1207
1211 FALSE 1211
1218 FALSE 1218
1222 FALSE 1222
1224 FALSE 1224
1227 FALSE 1227
1230 FALSE 1230
1234 FALSE 1234
1237 FALSE 1237
1241 FALSE 1241
1242 FALSE 1242
1242 FALSE 1242
1244 FALSE 1244
1247 FALSE 1247
1249 FALSE 1249
1260 FALSE 1260
1272 FALSE 1272
1272 FALSE 1272
1272 FALSE 1272
1872 TRUE 1248

Average 1214.09375
Flare Pot 468 (260*1.8)
Pot 2.594217415

Max 1272
Min 1160
Ratio 1.096551724
Flare Pot 468
(Min+Max)/2 1216
Pot 2.598290598

[Eein]

Glad this is finally taking place.
If you are looking for some specific information hop on irc.quakenet.org #chocobro and we might have some details for you.

We have a pretty close damage formula thats rediculously close and we can possibly share some interactions we've noticed.

I'm working on redoing my website so it'll be down for a while...

Good news is that my software sim is coming together really quickly and I should have it up sooner than I expected with bard support.

[Kenji1134]

But beyond just having the damage formula, we also need a way to get some useful data out of it.

The way I have been going about it is thus:

In Excel, using the given model and a given set of stats, I calculate a base potency.
Then I add 5 new rows of stats, where in each set 1 parameter is increased by 1. So WD+1, Int+1, Det+1, Crit+1, and Spd+1.
I calculate the potency for each new row using the same formula, then subtract the result of each new row from the original unaltered stats. This gives me the potency gain for increasing a given parameter by 1.
Lastly, I divide each of the results from the above procedure by the increase from Int, putting everything onto an Int scale.

Once everything is done, for BLM, I typically get something that looks like this:
WD = ~6
Int = 1
Det = ~0.27
Crit = ~0.19
Spd = ~0.20

These are the resultant stat weights, roughly, that I get from analyzing small controlled variations in the damage model.

[Eein]

But beyond just having the damage formula, we also need a way to get some useful data out of it.

There's one thing wrong with this unless you're formulating this on a rotation basis;
The key thing missing by just checking changes in potency is interactions, rng, and procs from abilities and the fact that even though theres a set amount of crit rate, that you have more chances to crit when an ability is used more.

It's hard to pin a weight when you can't formulate/simulate a scenario.
If you really want to do this via a spreadsheet I'd recommend trying to pin a perfect rotation down over a span of say minutes and check the amount of abilities used during that duration. You can calculate damage etc from that amount and get real DPS and formulated weights for that run. You can then adjust the crit values to an assumed average and try to generate a nice report and weights based on this.