Whats the big issue with dps pulling mobs?

[Darkdrover]

I bet someone is going to flame me for attacking rude inconsiderate people, watch and see! lol

[NicePerson]

Why create more work for the tank and the healer...

[darkstarpoet1]

during runs like wp pulling hate on a mob while using aoe is expected, but in more skill based content such as coil or primals where it becomes a major issue. a dd pulling hate for even a second in those fights can wipe a party. that's where things become an issue. in skill based fights you need to pay close attention to your hate bar and make sure not to pull hate from the tank as it can lead to a party wipe and then tempers flare quickly.

don't say it's the tank's fault that you pulled hate because you have a hate bar just like everyone else and if you pull hate it means YOU weren't doing your job properly. regardless of how slow a tank generates hate you can go at a speed in which you don't pull hate from them. i've had fights in which i've had to sit still for 10+ seconds for the tank to get far enough ahead that i don't pull hate from them, but that's what a good dd does.

edit: as far as pulling mobs for the tank there are only a few scenarios in which a dd should be the ones pulling mobs. 2 of those are in wp on the pudding and gobbue bosses. the tank will hold the mobs outside the barrier and you pull the boss to him so he can grab it from you while standing at the entrance. there are other times, but you need to COMMUNICATE "hey i am going to pull these mobs to you" and make sure they understand and agree with you. never pull a mob to a tank you don't know unless they are certain they can handle it and are ready to pull the mobs off you. if you do don't get upset when they let you die.

[Caraway]

A lot of folks have given a lot of good reasons why it's generally a bad idea to be pulling as a DPS.

It screws up pacing, it screws up cooldowns, it screws up rotations, and it just generally screws up the run when everyone's running around like headless chickens.

It would be different if DD players in this game had any decorum at all and knew to run to the tank when they get aggro, or knew to switch targets when they have too much aggro. But no, people who play DD in this game seem to think it's WoW and tanks have magic "I have all aggro now" buttons and that it is solely the tanks job to manage aggro in a fight.

Point is, DPS is easy. You just need to stay out of bad stuff and DPS most of the time. Tanking and healing are more difficult for obvious reasons and if you want to encourage people to do those two jobs more, stop doing things to make them want to quit.

This is pretty bullshit in this game especially. There are so many fights in FFXIV where the DD roles are the lynchpin of the fight. Good luck meeting those DPS checks without them. Good luck managing key adds without DPS. This isn't a game where your DD can't just sit back and blissfully hit their rotations.

Truth is, in a lot of boss fights the tank has it incredibly easy. We get to sit put and spam our hate combos on a single mob and the majority of the time their AEs won't target us; they'll go after the heals/DD. Yeah, we tanks have a lot of work getting the party to the boss but once we're there? We get to have a pretty easy time of things for the majority of boss fights.

I'd say healers probably have the hardest job in this game with constant streams of damage being applied not only to the tank but to DD as well, and also having to get what DPS in they can.

I think some dps are use to other games when a range dps job was to pull to split up stacks of mobs and if you got more mobs than intended someone would cc the rest.In this game people just want to tank and spank.I would even get yelled at for using sleep on my blm to make runs go smoother(not talking about speed runs).

You can still do that in this game, but personally I think the only class that should be even thinking about it is the bard. A ranged standard attack has longer reach than a tank's ranged attack after all and it is negligible amount of hate generated. As long as the bard realizes they can't immediately start unloading this method of pulling can be safe.

It is sad though that this game doesn't seem to have any ability or need for splitting pulls, considering everything is linked.

[Axidrain]

A lot of folks have given a lot of good reasons why it's generally a bad idea to be pulling as a DPS.
....

i agree, from hard to easiest. healer>melee dps>casters>bards>tanks

[Moirear]

If you do this one or two times and seem to have a good reason (for instance: an unlinked mob could be pulled because you reacted quickly which makes it easier for everyone than having to handle that mob and 3 others at the same time), I don't mind.

If you do this the whole dungeon, and appear to be grossly overestimating the party's speedrun capabilities or just seem like a bored brat, I will let you run into your death eventually. It's reckless and stupid, and often inefficient: the harder the time the tank has to peel enmity back off of a dps, the more time is wasted that could have been used de-buffing or DoT'ing or actually dealing extra damage to the mobs. This is not taking into account the amount of TP/MP that can get wasted on this which might end up saving everybody's butt down the road.

I highly suggest you try running tank one of these days. Also, it's not just dps pulling mobs, there are healers that do this too, and it's sometimes even worse when they start spam-healing themselves and building huge enmity chunks that way. Also, it's harder to let them die to their own ridiculousness.

[Quenn]

I don't know what I am doing or how to avoid this but I am always a healer in dungeons and rarely attack enemies. I wait until the tank starts his job then I get involved and start healing but I find that when I do start healing I get attacked like crazy even if I don't attack the monsters.

I do have some DPS moves which when I use I understand why I am being attacked but when I am healing. I am just a little confused.

[Moirear]

I don't know what I am doing or how to avoid this but I am always a healer in dungeons and rarely attack enemies. I wait until the tank starts his job then I get involved and start healing but I find that when I do start healing I get attacked like crazy even if I don't attack the monsters.

Every time you heal or buff a character who's the target of any mobs, you build a chunk of enmity on each of those mob's enmity tables, no matter the amount healed. Some abilities build more enmity than others, like using Medica (healing multiple people counts for multiple increases in enmity) or Regen (every tick of Regen healing, it builds enmity in every mob attacking that person), and overhealing (when the player character is at full or almost full health, for instance, and you still heal) also builds enmity, regardless of you actually healing zero points of damage. If you overheal when unnecessary and/or your tank is bad at holding/outmatching enmity, you peel enmity off the tank often. In fact, a healer's attacks usually have a tendency of building less enmity (AoEs like Holy notwithstanding).

[Axidrain]

I don't know what I am doing or how to avoid this but I am always a healer in dungeons and rarely attack enemies. I wait until the tank starts his job then I get involved and start healing but I find that when I do start healing I get attacked like crazy even if I don't attack the monsters.

I do have some DPS moves which when I use I understand why I am being attacked but when I am healing. I am just a little confused.

over healing especially for whm's will get u a lot of hate. couple tht with medica II and then u get a whole lot lof attention from the mobs if the tank isnt paying attention

[Quenn]

Yes, someone told me about using Medica. I haven't got Medica 2 yet and usually it's the first time I use Heal I get attacked. Not that I can't handle it. I usually attack when I am attacked (I use my Fluid Aura to throw them away) and then understand if the monsters come after me. I was just curious about getting attacked by healing.
Thanks for the info.