Whats the big issue with dps pulling mobs?

[koikitty]

The tank took too long to stand there and stare at the mob?

[Despite]

Haha I'm not trying to be mean, but that is the noobiest question I've seen in a long time!

[Welsper59]

lovely words

This is very much it. Not to mention the DPS love to unload immediately, either because the mob has been in play for a while (at least a few seconds) or because they just want to.

DPS: "y u no tank mob? noob"
Tank: "provoke on cooldown from the last time you did this a few seconds ago"
DPS: "jus hit it"
Tank: "hard to build threat when you keep kiting and unloading on it"

I think that's a pretty common situation for tanks that deal with unplanned DPS pulling.

[astrobearthe2nd]

This isn't a troll thread. its an honest question. I find that one of the biggest complaints about dps is pulling mobs (the other being not dodging aoe). Since I am a melee dps, i find myself doing it often when our tank is not going fast enough and our aoe isnt being optimized.

So serious question, whats the problem with a dps pulling mobs? cant the tank just pull aggro again?

there is no real issue with dps pulling.as tanks, we can pull the aggro off you with no problem in 2.1 especially with the enimity buff,however, i still dislike dps pulling when i tank. to me, if you pull a mob once, i will tank it. you pull mob twice, i take 1/2 the mob off you and YOU kill the rest. keep pulling after 3 times (by this point i would have ask you to stop), you tank whatever you pull...and depends on how the healer in the group feels about your stupidity, they will let you die and wont heal you anymore until he or she feel that you stop being a asshat.i seen groups when a dps thinks he or she can force a speed run, but only to laid on the ground dead because no one felt like dealing with their crap. the funniest moment i witness was when i was in a dungeon and a lancer kept pulling all the mobs (mind you i have a macro to mark enemies with i use my tomahawk, so there isnt any down time unless i see if the healer need to refill its mp points) and refuse to attack the mark monsters. i ask him politely to stop pulling 2 times...he ignore me on both occasion. so me and the healer came into an agreement that we will let him die and proceed onward as we had a SMN in our party, so we really didnt need the lnc. the lancer kept pulling the mob and thought i will steal them off and the healer will keep his hp points up...we did not and proceeded to clear 3/4 of the dungeon without him.when we got to the last boss, the lancer thought he was gonna troll us by pulling the boss...as soon as i saw this i said "go out the room guys" and let the dps handle the boss on all the times he wanted to pull his silly crap.eventually he QQed and called us all "bads" and we should commit suicide and etc. it was really funny to watch him explode and left the dungeon. thankfully we got another lancer (well he was a dragoon but w/e), who follow the rules.


tl;dr? as a dps it ISNT your job to pull anything unless the group agrees to it before hand.doing so it annoying and we will lead you to be dead or in 2.1..kicked.

[Axidrain]

i hate it when dps do this when im tanking. its nothing that cant be handled but its just super annoying. and as dps i make it a point not to do that to other tanks, ive seen quite a few wipes because of this in df.

[SirGazuntai]

My main is a DPS (BLM) and I used to accidentally pull agro from tanks and I was among the players who blamed the tanks for not being able to keep their enmity up. However, I made a PLD simply for insta-que's cause waiting 30 minutes to get into WP was tiresome and I realized a lot of things.

1. Paladin's can't keep agro in AoE situations as well as Warriors can. We can use Flash, yes, but our main skills for generating enmity are single target, so we rotate through the monsters.

2. Following from number 1, if a Paladin is cycling through monsters and he has them numbered yet a DPS decides to attack number 3 and draw agro the Paladin has to stop with everything else and go for number 3 while everyone else builds enmity on number 1. It causes a lot of stress as as soon as you're done with 3, you go to 1 to get that back and by the time that happens 3 has been taken again.

3. A lot of BLM love to insta-AoE to the point that I need to spam Flash, but I often find myself with no MP at this point. Only time spamming Flash is a good idea is Speed runs with a Bard.

Since playing as a PLD I've come to realize a lot of ways to play to prevent me stealing agro.

For starters, let the tank begin getting enmity before you jump in. They don't just instantly have high enmity, especially PLD who gain the most enmity at the end of their combo (don't play Warrior, so don't know what that's like combo-wise).

PROVOKE DOESN'T BUILD ENMITY, STOP ATTACKING THINGS THAT TANKS USE PROVOKE ON IN THE BEGINNING! (Also, Tanks, stop using Provoke while you're tanking bosses as it does nothing to build Enmity...)

If you're about to steal agro on a monster, switch to a different monster and build some enmity on that one and do it again if you're about to steal agro from that monster too.

If you DO steal agro, stop attacking (running away makes it so much harder) and take the monster to the tank. They'll be annoyed if you make them run around after you. Attack something else.



I also want to say this to DPS and healers out there... For the love of God, stop pulling far off monsters for the tanks. If we wanted to do that we would, but we either weren't ready for it or we didn't want to do it. Let the tank lead the battle and set the pace. So frustrating when I throw my shield at some flying blue balloons and some healer decides to bring in some Tonberry's from up the stairs after the second boss... I can handle 5 monsters, but not when they're randomly thrown in my face in the middle of battle.

[AyaneKiwara]

As a DPS the only thing I will pull are the Succubi in AK. Everything else I feel is the tank's responsibility. They have a ranged attack that generates enmity. It makes it more work for tanks if DPS pull things, especially if they continue to DPS it after pulling it.

Even that isnt necessary. All of the succubi can be reached by a tank with provoke, assuming they even want them split. I never split them. You can avoid almost all the extra damage from her spells by running through her while casting so its not like its any extra hindrance on the healer. Even make it a point to properly stun the void fires and perhaps use a CD for the last group with a succubi.

[TeganLaron]

As both a healer and a tank I have no problem with this, as long as you can handle the consequences. If you build up too much enmity and I can't pull it back in time, or heal you before you die, then it's your own fault.

[Raydeus]

DPS should not pull because the way Hate/Aggro works on this game requires Tanks to be the pullers.

It could probably be fixed with different aggro mechanics so it worked like it does in games like XI, but that's completely the decision of the devs whether that's the kind of gameplay they want or not. And right now Tank = Puller, or else.

[Darkdrover]

Its a pointless debate really. People are going to attack you for even daring to ask that the DPS hold off until the tank can mark and gain hate properly. With the Roulette, this is how things are going down: you got 2 relic dps and healer, and you have a beginner tank. This is how it usually goes:

Tank: Hi, im new here, first time tanking
DPS: lolnoob pull faster
then said DPS runs off and grabs two trash packs
Tank: Um, I cant handle this...
DPS: noob, noob lol l2p
Healer: yawn. pull faster.
Tank: I don't think I can do this, tank drops
DPS: ragequit loser..

Now, when IM in this situation, if the tank says, Hey, im new, never tanked here before.
My response? No worries. Take your time, I wont go crazy until you are set
the tank thanks you, in most cases the healer will be greatful, and it works for everyone. No one is perfect, no one gets it right the first time all the time. It should be an assumed risk that when using DF or DR, you have a strong chance of getting someone new. Why crucify them? If they are doing it wrong, offer advice and encouragement. Id rather someone take their time to learn a dungeon so the next group they get in doesn't have to worry about someone not knowing what they are doing. Why tear people down simply to make yourself feel better/superior? its just a game, and people pay the same amount to play that you do. My biggest advice? don't tank or heal a DF, go with friends or your FC until you are comfortable in your roles. There is a reason it takes forever to find a tank in most DF...