Whats the big issue with dps pulling mobs?

[Rezoslip]

Sometimes it just happens... as a dps mostly it drives me nuts.

I sense its because the enemy sees my name " teamgizzy Tinypom " and knows to fear me. and acts of out of instinct

[Zfz]

(1) You have no idea of the tank's status.

Do you know what cooldowns the tank have used? Do you know how much TP he has? Do you know how much MP he has? Let's be honest. Have you, ever, checked a PLD/GLA's MP before you as melee dps pulled the next pack because the tank isn't fast enough?

(2) Mess up skill order and positioning.

There's a reason tanks do the run-in-shield-lob-flash sequence. The shield lob solidifies single target enmity on the kill priority so you melee damage dealers could open fire. We all know how many LNC/DRGs even wait half a sec before throwing their lance. Then the Flash establishes base enmity on all targets so whatever the healer does, it won't kill them.

By pulling as melee DD, everything will now converge on you. The tank now must use his first GCD on Flash or Overpower. This means not only do you have a headstart, the kill target also didn't get a shield lob, meaning the tank has less than 50% enmity of what he would have had, which in turns forces the tank to play catch up to you.

Does that 1 GCD matter? Yes it does, in many situations it does. And no it won't, in many situations it won't. But you as melee DD is in no position to decide, nor are you capable of deciding, whether this is one situation where it doesn't matter. As melee DD, have you ever, during the whole dungeon, paid attention to exactly how much enmity each party member has on each target? You probably don't, but the tank does. It's the tank's job to know.

Positioning is less of a problem in today's easy mode content, but in hard, challenging content, positioning matters. When the tank has to move mobs, he often cannot keep up the enmity output at the same time---or he has to move slowly in stages and it may take 3-4 times longer to position mobs properly.

(3) Provoke has a 40sec recast, and is single target.

Taunts in this game is not a button to be mashed. It's an oh-no button. We're not playing with a taunt that has 6 seconds cool-down. We have to wait 40 seconds.

--

With all that said, there's nothing inherently wrong about someone other than the tank pulling. As long as:

1. You are just pulling. I.e., after you pull, you wait for the tank to pick the mobs up. You don't pop cooldowns and unload hell.
2. You pull properly.
3. You are aware of the tank's status. Or you are friends with the tank.

Most of the times, number 3 won't be true.

Seriously, if you really can't stand slow people, either put together a party yourself via the party finder, or play a tank yourself. Players are people, too, not some NPC the system spawned so you can have your way all time all the way.

[SarcasmMisser]

The bottom line is always let tanks control the pace of the pulls in a dungeon. A good tank will always pull as much as he/she is comfortable with so don't go making decisions for the tank. Stealing threat mid-fight happens all the time though, and shouldn't be a big deal unless it's a boss. As a BLM I use quelling strikes if I am going to use aoe, and if I steal threat I'll pop manawall to make it easier on the healer, there's small considerate things like this you can do to not be a pain on the healer and the tank.

[Xanros]

I get a monk and a bard. The monk and healer were new. Not only that, but the monk was "special". He kept running ahead of me and pulling, fighting mobs from the front, standing in AOE, etc. he died on every single boss

That was Wimp Lo.... we have trained him wrong on purpose... as a joke.

[Amyas]

Try it more often, you'll get lots of 'kicks' out of it lol.

[jojober]

Well I got tired of waiting to find a tank, so I started leveling PLD to help the problem. I'm only mid30s now, but I have to say, I HATE when a DPS pulls. I should mention, I leveled GLA to ~25 or so in 1.0, so I really am still learning rotations and whatnot for my baby paladin. As such, the extra enmity on the marked1 mob I get from Shield Lob is super helpful to make sure I hold that mob while DPS beat on it at the same time as making hate on adds solid. Maybe at higher level (or better skill) it won't be such an issue, but I find it infinitely harder to regain aggro than it is to grab and hold it from the start. Not to mention, the DPS (so far its always been a BRD for me personally) then proceeds to run around in circles thinking they are going into survival mode by kiting it around. Be still so I can get a hate combo off asap after provoke/shield lob!Plus, I like to mark things. Having a DPS decide to pull something just messes that all up for me.

Jojo

[Battlewrench]

Back in my day the DPS always pulled!!! Thieves did the pulling and we liked it!! The streets were made of gold and chocobos rode you! Gibberygoo to all y'all youngin's

[ShinigamiB06]

If you are pulling because the tank isnt fast enough, there is also the chance he might not be ready, and you die. Even one death because of this blows your optimization argument out of the water. Though I do think there was a big boost to some of the emnity builders for the tank classes.

I may be reading to much into it, but something about your post rubs me the wrong way. It's like you are implying that your speed is the "correct" speed.

White knight much? There is a "correct" speed. It's the speed agreed upon the team members, or at least the majority of them. These occasions that im talking about are mostly when we agree pre dungeon that we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. And i have never been inconsiderate about it. Whenever i pull, i make sure everyone in the party is well equipped and able to handle a speed run. If three people go in expecting a speed run and the tank isnt doing it, then im not the one at fault.

[Amyas]

White knight much? There is a "correct" speed. It's the speed agreed upon the team members, or at least the majority of them. These occasions that im talking about are mostly when we agree pre dungeon that we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. And i have never been inconsiderate about it. Whenever i pull, i make sure everyone in the party is well equipped and able to handle a speed run. If three people go in expecting a speed run and the tank isnt doing it, then im not the one at fault.

Well if everyone save the tank 'agreed to a speedrun' before hand, maybe you should find a tank that wants a speed run? I love shooting down DF scrubs in WP trying to push me to 'sr'. Sit back, deeps, wait for your tomes, non-tank plebian. Run ahead and pull? That's a vote kick. Not enough people to vote you out? GL with no tank, my connection may suddenly get a bit 'spotty' if you catch my drift...

Edit: If I know you, its fine, go crazy, heck I may go crazy too and pull the rest of the place while you're at it. If I don't... you dun messed up your dungeon run boyo.

[SarcasmMisser]

Considering the irreplaceable role tanks play in a WPSR I'm not sure what pulling for them is even trying to accomplish.