Whats the big issue with dps pulling mobs?

[ShinigamiB06]

If you are pulling because the tank isnt fast enough, there is also the chance he might not be ready, and you die. Even one death because of this blows your optimization argument out of the water. Though I do think there was a big boost to some of the emnity builders for the tank classes.

I may be reading to much into it, but something about your post rubs me the wrong way. It's like you are implying that your speed is the "correct" speed.

White knight much? There is a "correct" speed. It's the speed agreed upon the team members, or at least the majority of them. These occasions that im talking about are mostly when we agree pre dungeon that we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. And i have never been inconsiderate about it. Whenever i pull, i make sure everyone in the party is well equipped and able to handle a speed run. If three people go in expecting a speed run and the tank isnt doing it, then im not the one at fault.

[Amyas]

White knight much? There is a "correct" speed. It's the speed agreed upon the team members, or at least the majority of them. These occasions that im talking about are mostly when we agree pre dungeon that we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. And i have never been inconsiderate about it. Whenever i pull, i make sure everyone in the party is well equipped and able to handle a speed run. If three people go in expecting a speed run and the tank isnt doing it, then im not the one at fault.

Well if everyone save the tank 'agreed to a speedrun' before hand, maybe you should find a tank that wants a speed run? I love shooting down DF scrubs in WP trying to push me to 'sr'. Sit back, deeps, wait for your tomes, non-tank plebian. Run ahead and pull? That's a vote kick. Not enough people to vote you out? GL with no tank, my connection may suddenly get a bit 'spotty' if you catch my drift...

Edit: If I know you, its fine, go crazy, heck I may go crazy too and pull the rest of the place while you're at it. If I don't... you dun messed up your dungeon run boyo.

[Avalon_Albrook]

White knight much? There is a "correct" speed. It's the speed agreed upon the team members, or at least the majority of them. These occasions that im talking about are mostly when we agree pre dungeon that we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. And i have never been inconsiderate about it. Whenever i pull, i make sure everyone in the party is well equipped and able to handle a speed run. If three people go in expecting a speed run and the tank isnt doing it, then im not the one at fault.

Dude, no. A speed run does not exist unless the entire party is okay with it. Everyone but the tank going into a run saying "yay speed run!" means there will be no speed run. If that's your attitude, then any tank worth his/her salt should (and hopefully will) let you die. Deeps need to learn hard lessons.

[Lukahn]

White knight much? There is a "correct" speed. It's the speed agreed upon the team members, or at least the majority of them. These occasions that im talking about are mostly when we agree pre dungeon that we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. And i have never been inconsiderate about it. Whenever i pull, i make sure everyone in the party is well equipped and able to handle a speed run. If three people go in expecting a speed run and the tank isnt doing it, then im not the one at fault.

White knight? No. There was nothing in your first post that implied this very specific scenario. For all we knew, you were saying that you just pull things when you think the tank was going to slow in every single dungeon. I figured it could be a misunderstanding.

[Sunah]

I may be reading to much into it, but something about your post rubs me the wrong way. It's like you are implying that your speed is the "correct" speed.

Honestly speaking, the DPS cannot tank. So the tanks speed is the ONLY speed. Just ask politely if he can speed it up because the healer and DPS can handle it. I'm pretty sure he will do so. If not and hes being a dick about it, hey by all means do what you can to piss him off haha.

[Avalon_Albrook]

Honestly speaking, the DPS cannot tank. So the tanks speed is the ONLY speed. Just ask politely if he can speed it up because the healer and DPS can handle it. I'm pretty sure he will do so. If not and hes being a dick about it, hey by all means do what you can to piss him off haha.

This.

As someone else said above, we tanks, for the most part, can judge with great accuracy the strength and capabilities of a party very quickly into a run based on what we see. Sometimes, we're wrong and we overestimate or underestimate, and that's fine. Communication is key, and a good tank can/will adjust accordingly to what a party can handle as long as the tank himself can handle it.

You may not think we're watching what the DPS attacks first and focuses on, or if they're splitting attacks against multiple mobs, how fast they burn something down, if they're watching aggro meters build for them or not, and that we're watching the healer's preference of doing damage and healing only when necessary for spikes, or if they're a constant topper-offer, if they're regen- or medica-happy, etc. -- but we do. We notice all of that, and we notice it right away. That's part of our job. That all plays into how much we pull and how fast we do it and how we manage what we pull. Unless we ask you to grab something for us specifically, do not break the rhythm we're setting. Sometimes, that rhythm is moreso for the tank than the party, like if you're barely in AK gear tanking a run with everyone else in lv90 gear.

Yeah, there are plenty of douchebag tanks that just want to be uppity and sensitive if one word is said against them, but there are also plenty of us that take the job of party protector seriously and strive to execute that with the utmost consistent success. A DPS pulling will piss us off so badly because you are robbing us of the ability to control the situation and your own safety, which threatens the entire party. So unless you love suiciding on mobs, don't do it.

[Phai]

Might be that we have roles for a reason. Tank like to gather up mobs, and have a plan for each pull in his head, if a dps pulls, u,
1: take over a job that is for tank
2: u mess up his plan and initial agro building.

Its not a big deal, but still its consider rude for some and u just stress the tank for little reasons.

Compare it whit not moving out of Damage, healer can just heal u anyway.

[RowanLauron]

A few reasons in my opinion:

1) makes it more difficult for mob control if the tank doesn't have initial aggro as mobs will not converge on him/her.

2) dps take more damage than tanks which means extra healing which means healers get aggro much sooner and more of it before a tank can control the mobs

3) less controllable situation overall. The tank can't position appropriately ASAP to maximize said aoe dps you claim makes it easier to do if a dps pulls.

This is from a healer perspective. Pulls go smoother 99% of the time when a tank pulls first.

[gadzi_h]

A few reasons in my opinion:

1) makes it more difficult for mob control if the tank doesn't have initial aggro as mobs will not converge on him/her.

Convergence becomes a huge issue when using a Dps - AoE, I have to agree 100% with that.

[Darkdrover]

Its a pointless debate really. People are going to attack you for even daring to ask that the DPS hold off until the tank can mark and gain hate properly. With the Roulette, this is how things are going down: you got 2 relic dps and healer, and you have a beginner tank. This is how it usually goes:

Tank: Hi, im new here, first time tanking
DPS: lolnoob pull faster
then said DPS runs off and grabs two trash packs
Tank: Um, I cant handle this...
DPS: noob, noob lol l2p
Healer: yawn. pull faster.
Tank: I don't think I can do this, tank drops
DPS: ragequit loser..

Now, when IM in this situation, if the tank says, Hey, im new, never tanked here before.
My response? No worries. Take your time, I wont go crazy until you are set
the tank thanks you, in most cases the healer will be greatful, and it works for everyone. No one is perfect, no one gets it right the first time all the time. It should be an assumed risk that when using DF or DR, you have a strong chance of getting someone new. Why crucify them? If they are doing it wrong, offer advice and encouragement. Id rather someone take their time to learn a dungeon so the next group they get in doesn't have to worry about someone not knowing what they are doing. Why tear people down simply to make yourself feel better/superior? its just a game, and people pay the same amount to play that you do. My biggest advice? don't tank or heal a DF, go with friends or your FC until you are comfortable in your roles. There is a reason it takes forever to find a tank in most DF...