MNK vs SMN ?

[KiiNGKRUSH]

Another SMN here, let me say that I LOVE this class for all the reasons listed. It's a very busy job that has you always thinking because of Dot timers. The ability to apply Dots, contagion, bane and Fester is glorious. Using Engineer plus Rouse and Spur for solid AOE damage is icing on the cake. The only real weakness IMO is burst DPS, Fester is just not enough considering how long it takes to set up. You won't always have adds pop right next to the boss to apply bane either. Overall though I am VERY pleased with SMN and that includes my floating jello Egi's

[KiiNGKRUSH]

Meant Enkindle, not engineer stupid auto spell lol.

[Syphoner]

Ive been smn since launch and love it. As for macros I use one to place dots so I can switch to a dif hotbar to use an int potion to boost before I use fester and bane getting me mid to high 1200s on crits. Its very versatile we normally run dungeons with 3 dps with me tanking the hard bosses. I can pull hate from most tanks and then lock them down till they have time to pick them back up. Also smn is a life saver with eye for eye and battle rez. And if need be we can heal good enough to keep the tank up in dungeons long enough for a healer to recover from rez. Also we never need ballads unless we are ignoring our aethers.

for mnk im working on mine right now. Only at 33 but it is fun. As of right now I wouldnt give up smn for it.

Also one thing you need to remember is that with smn you should make sure you lock on target before casting cause you get alot of interupts if the taget moves alot. Seems it happens when the targets name leaves the screen.

[Aphrini]

To me SMN > all I have been a hardcore smn from the get go and in ffxi ran a smn ls for years. I love the job, I think it is fun and personally don't usea macro for it. If used correctly it is king of dps and can melt all the faces. SMN4LYF

[Aikota]

I had the same decision to make. I was already an i90 SCH who's done all content and I wanted either MNK or SMN. I ended up gearing both and now MNK is my main. They are both extremely fun classes. MNK I find better because you have to manage your skills/buffs bette. Makes it more interesting

[Sigvaldus]

Summoner, hands down, mnks are fairly useless in pvp

[Allyrion]

I play MNK main and only started trying out SMN recently.

I can talk about MNKs easily. I really like their playstyle. Though movement may seem like a hinderance from the outside, I think it's a lot of fun. It's a third dimensional sort of combat. There's a lot of rhythm to it as well since the gameplay lends itself to muscle memory.
Not to mention the damage is pretty amazing (top), but I'd be playing it even if it wasn't.

SMN feels like the caster equivalent to MNK. I've played BLM a lot but I'm only now trying SMN out. SMN is like MNK in that it has ramp up and it's really about sustained single target.
However, SMN has much better options for AoE than MNK. Not to mention being ranged feels a lot safer if you want to keep up dps.
I doubt SMN dps can beat MNK dps.
Particularly because fights that are bad to SMNs are bad to MNKs, and fights that are good to SMN are good to MNKs.
The notable exception is, again, aoe. SMNs are great at cleave and manage any overall aoe better than a MNK.

SMN utility -
Eye for an Eye (amazing for everybody who gets it, shorter cd for SMN/SCH)
Virus (nerfed the uptime, but still a great ability. SMN reduces int/mind(?) as well)
Instant Res (of course, you shouldn't want to use this but things happen. SMNs can save healers mana and concentration)
5% slow Shadow Flare (Not sure the extent this works on bosses, but it's pretty great. It seems to have no diminishing returns as it's permanent once the mob stays in.)

MNK utility -
Mantra (cross class version sucks, 20% healing increased can be great)
-10% INT on Enemy via Dragon Kick (permanent debuff since you keep it up for your rotation).
Silence (we have one, but you should never really ask the MNK to do it unless it's really no other choice. Huge TP drain, very clunky to use. Though I have done ADS with it.)

The SMN utility seems like more but the Dragon Kick debuff being fairly permanent can't be underestimated.
Of course, it stacks with virus and eye for an eye. There's also nuances like chaining Eye for an Eye if your other party members have it.

[T0rin]

I doubt SMN dps can beat MNK dps.
Particularly because fights that are bad to SMNs are bad to MNKs, and fights that are good to SMN are good to MNKs.

For example?

There is one situation where I can expect a MNK to be able to match SMN dps, and that is a 'pure stand-up DPS' fight, i.e. one where you literally just stand in place and beat the crap out of something until it dies. These situations, neither MNK nor SMN has to do anything but keep spitting out the optimal skill rotation until the target is dead. You get maxed out Greased Lightning uptime, and can keep on punching.

The fights that cater more to SMN and less to MNK, that are not AoE encounters, are those where you are forced to move off target. Extreme Titan is a good example. Need to pull back to avoid bombs. Need to run away to dodge plumes. Get Gaol'd and lose stacks. Basically, a fight where MNK has to pull off of the target and can potentially lose GL stacks. When a SMN pulls back to avoid bombs, they keep shooting from range, DoTs keep ticking. Dodging plumes? Ruin II/Fester/Bio still see some action and DoTs keep ticking. Get Gaol'd? DoTs keep ticking, Garuda keeps shooting.

The benefit of SMN is that even while dealing with mechanics, you have a very large chunk of damage that keeps going. The same mechanics that can cause MNK GL stacks to fall off, the SMN is still dealing like 80%+ of their damage.

It basically comes down to 1 simple thing: Can MNK keep GL stacks 100% of the time? If yes, then they can win the DPS war. If not? They can lose it. I say can, of course, because not all players are equal in skill.

[Seobit]

There's no such thing as a bad SMN fight. That is why SMN is the best dps class in the game.

[Allyrion]

Snip

There's no such thing as a bad SMN fight. That is why SMN is the best dps class in the game.

I suppose that's true. I didn't really take into account that during phase shifts for things like the primals, dots still tick and you don't really have to restart from scratch.
Not to mention the ramp-up for SMN being shorter.

I have noticed some fights where adds might spawn outside of bane range (some CT bombs and titan jails). In these cases, the MNK can keep GL3 while the SMN has to reapply all the dots which is not very helpful when you want to kill it quicker than that.
Those cases seem very specific though, so SMNs are pretty strong and versatile regardless.

I don't believe that a MNK needs 100% GL3 to match a SMN though, but a fairly high uptime.
Also Turn 2, for example, isn't exactly a training dummy fight but you should keep up GL3 the whole time and pretty much beat anyone else.
I'd have rated SMN ahead of MNK for most of end game before 2.1.
The MNK buffs were very heavy handed afterwards and SMN got nerfed as well. I would say the primals do favour SMN though.