[DEV1032] If you want class uniqueness , Make weapon skills unique to the class!

[TirionCrey]

ok you want to know why. the game was advertised as being able to use your skills from one class on another. you use certain abilities and i do believe there should be some restrictions, but to say lock all skills is way too far. quite frankly i enjoy being able to fill multiple roles in a party and being more involved. i enjoy the feeling of being able to rank up said class to get a skill to make my character better. if it were not for that i would have left after i got my first class to 50 as i would have had no more reason to play.

this game went on the idea that you can advance your individual character and not be stuck in one pre defined spot. i do not want to be stuck for hours trying to get a party because one certain type of player is needed for one thing when i already have the ability to be able to get started. i know the new jobs will be additional and i have no more of an idea than you do of what to expect from them. i hope they build onto the armory system and make the system as a whole better, but do not destroy the fundamental aspects that drew alot to the game to start with.

If you fail in seeing that something like you imagined it is not working out in the end, you should have considered not starting XIV at all. There will always be the time where classes will be set to a predefined spot(Gladiator not having Emulate? lol gtfo). the only thing that makes it still viable to play as whatever you want with whatever abilities you want is the fact that there is no need for cookiecutting yet since...

1. Stats/Effort don't matter so cookiecutting would have no effect whatsoever.

2. Content doesn't really demand/support cookiecutting yet.

BUT...and this is a big BUT. That time will come. People will expect you to have specific things and/or specific classes leveled, otherwise you will be neglected. It's bound to happen and if you fail to see that and think all classes should have access to all abilities, you are pretty much killing your own argument there, cause it will give cookiecutters even more possibilities to predefine "your" spot.

Just a simple example. You are a MRD, wanting to deal dmg, not tank. You apply to a serious endgame linkshell. First question will be, do you have ARC and LNC high enough so you got Raging Strike 2 and Ferocity 2? Yes/No? Accepted/L2P!...that's how its gonna end up...

[Laucian]

weapon skill are not abilities to rank a class to get its abilities i am all for it , but to see every one have twisting vise = not unique .

[Laucian]

hell having colusion for the threat transfer is going to be a must unless you want to die in dungeons

[darkstarpoet1]

weapon skill are not abilities to rank a class to get its abilities i am all for it , but to see every one have twisting vise = not unique .

Twisting Vice - Stab and twist, dealing piercing damage and wiping out the target's TP.

ok so you are saying that only lancer can stab something.

[Spitfire]

I disagree however if you read through the Battle Reform Blueprint he states:


"We will also make a number of changes as part of our reexamination of how actions are equipped and the character requirements for doing so. First, actions learned by each class will be set to the action bar by default when playing as that class. Also, we will be making some actions settable on any class, while other "class-defining" actions obtained at higher ranks will be usable only by that class."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...form-Blueprint

So clearly there will be some class defining skills/weapons skills and then there will be run of the mill skills that any and all can use.

I kind of like this better than the system in 11 since it doesn't break certain classes at higher levels since they can make some really good skills (**cough** Convert **cough**) only usable by the respectable class.

[MeowyWowie]

@ OP

This thread has been covered before with the same exact replies you're seeing now.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...original-class.

Many seem to assume "Weapon Skills" = all abilities & magic.

I'm also in favor of WSs, or at least the majority of them, remain class specific, while abilities and magic remain interchangeable. It makes designing unique animations for WSs much less work for the dev which means higher quality visual effects. It also helps define each class, something the game definitely needs.

I think you'll find it difficult to convince anyone to agree with you who doesn't already. Fact is, the game was designed with one vision, but that vision completely failed. Yea, early release is part of it, but if that was the only reason, they wouldn't be redoing the core mechanics of the game as we speak. Their vision failed, and things need to change, that's all.

[darkstarpoet1]

@ OP

This thread has been covered before with the same exact replies you're seeing now.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...original-class.

Many seem to assume "Weapon Skills" = all abilities & magic.

I'm also in favor of WSs, or at least the majority of them, remain class specific, while abilities and magic remain interchangeable. It makes designing unique animations for WSs much less work for the dev which means higher quality visual effects. It also helps define each class, something the game definitely needs.

I think you'll find it difficult to convince anyone to agree with you who doesn't already. Fact is, the game was designed with one vision, but that vision completely failed. Yea, early release is part of it, but if that was the only reason, they wouldn't be redoing the core mechanics of the game as we speak. Their vision failed, and things need to change, that's all.

they're redoing it as part of the knee jerk reaction that removed the staff with that vision. the reason the system did nt work is they had too many other issues that people picked each one and made it a major flame fest.

this system would have been fine with more difficult mobs and that not any moron could kill any mob by pressing 1,1,1,1,1. with the auto attack you will now have those same people sitting and not touching any button while the game does it by itself.

you say remain, but i don't think you have heard anyone say that all should be cross classed. i think even the people that are most supportive of cross class abilities understands that there needs to be some limitations on certain skills. i actually wish there were more of them myself, but do not want to see the way it is setup now completely destroyed in the process.

if you are to make all weapon skills class specific to their respective class then you need to make magic class specific to magic classes. nobody wants that because they want to be able to heal themselves, but they do not want to see someone else on another class using their super awesome skill that only they should have. if you want to change all the attacks that the mages use off other classes then all skills from a mage should be removed from them.

[AlexiaKidd]

To be honest I think that they way they have made the class system was a mistake from the beginning and was the remnant of the original plan that was removed before launch.

The original idea was to let Physical Level dictate your Job as it were, it being a blank slate completely devoid of any skills and abilities. Then you would build a job by unlocking skills and abilities through mastery of weapons and build a custom job of your own and distribute stats as you saw fit to build a completely unique character the way your saw fit. They switched it around though and made Class Rank dominant. This has thrown everything out of whack as it has essentially made Classes Jobs but because they weren't designed to be Jobs it has just created a mess of the system and everything lacks definition as they were designed to help you build your own custom class. Though you can still cross class things it has been scaled back from it's original design and this is why it is all a bit meh.

For me I would love it if they just did away with the weapon=class system, I want Job's that define themselves and that can use a variety of weapons. So if I am a PLD I can use a G. Sword or a Sword and Shield, if I am a SAM I can use a G.Katana or Polearm. I want the freedom to use different weapons for different situations but depending on the Job would depend on how skilled I am with that weapon. FFXI did this very well, it allowed you to use multiple weapons and depending on the Job they would cap at different ranks so some would be better choices than others.

Of course along with this they should definitely lock weapon skills to the weapon to help make them unique, this would also help with animations as they wouldn't have to model every single weapon skill for every single weapon.

You can see SE are trying to move in this direction with the implementation of Job's to define the classes but now they just need to go that extra bit and make the classes stand on their own. With the removal of the Physical Leve we may see this as what will happen with EXP. EXP would be used for your Class Rank, so for example a MRD would gain all it's skills and abilities as it levelled up from EXP minus the weapon skills and then the weapon you wield would level up on SP unlocking Weapon Skills and your proficiency with the weapon.

Most likely that will not happen but damn I wish they would just do it, it feels like the way they are approaching it is to just stick a plaster over the issue.

[Laucian]

Thanks MeowyWowie nice read on that thread . and i still find it really funny how people view weapon skills as being every single ability, trait, spell. cure = spell any thing using similar mechanic , Raging strike = ability fleet of foot = trait
barrage = weapon skill And this is what should be restricted . it not so hard to see now is it.

[darkstarpoet1]

Thanks MeowyWowie nice read on that thread . and i still find it really funny how people view weapon skills as being every single ability, trait, spell. cure = spell any thing using similar mechanic , Raging strike = ability fleet of foot = trait
barrage = weapon skill And this is what should be restricted . it not so hard to see now is it.

no, people actually do understand and just do not agree as many have stated.