The problem with allowing Turn 2 Rage strat

[Vodomir]

It was intended for players to keep feeding Caduceus after the split but players got to a DPS level (and initially used Hallowed Ground) to "bypass the mechanic".

So, if you are calling enrage strat wrong and do Caduceus without feeding after the split. You are contradicting yourself.

Not, because this is not even remotely the same thing. People doing the enrage tactic didn't outgear the fight and accidently bypass the mechanics by just DPSing too fast. They intentionally hold back on DPS with the sole purpose to break game mechanics. Caduceus also doesn't stop attacking and none of its mechanics comes to a complete halt, whereas the ADS stops all of its attacks/mechanics in enrage mode. So how is this even the same thing? If the ADS was still doing all of its mechanics after the Enrage sets in, we wouldn't even have this discussion.

We do it both ways in our static. Both ways are ridiculously easy. Stop pretending like killing ADS before zero clicks is in any way, shape, or form hard.

But obviously you're not able to reliably pull it off the regular way, as otherwise there would be no reason to use Enrage Mode, as it has zero benefits other than being noob mode. The regular method is way faster, so why would anyone intentionally waste time in this fight, if the regular was so ridiculously easy as you say? What's the reason for even considering Enrage Mode then?

[Sapphic]

Not, because this is not even remotely the same thing. People doing the enrage tactic didn't outgear the fight and accidently bypass the mechanics by just DPSing too fast. They intentionally hold back on DPS with the sole purpose to break game mechanics. Caduceus also doesn't stop attacking and none of its mechanics comes to a complete halt, whereas the ADS stops all of its attacks/mechanics in enrage mode. So how is this even the same thing? If the ADS was still doing all of its mechanics after the Enrage sets in, we wouldn't even have this discussion.

How is it breaking anything when SE have said them selves IT IS FINE? Titan HM, people broke it by jumping off the edge, surviving and building heal enmity to make Titan not attack. Broke, fixed. Not given the ok. Twintania, first kill broke the encounter so it did nothing! Brkoen, fixed.

SE are well aware of this strat to kill ADS. Not broken, thus didn't need fixing, in fact they officially replied in this thread that it is OK!

End of discussion.

Post 56. page 6.

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the strategy that is being used for the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 2 against ADS and they do not consider it to be an exploit. There are currently no plans to make any adjustments.

[Vodomir]

They actually never said it was "FINE", they merely tolerate this kind of behaviour. There's not a single word about this strat to be fine or working as intended. All it takes is just a bit of common sense to realize, that the enrage strat is not actually intended. As SE confirmed that this is not considered to be exploit, feel free to use this strat all the way you like, but please don't tell others that this is working as intended and 100& legitimate, as it is not.

[Ashira]

Please don't tell others that this is working as intended and 100& legitimate, as it is not.

In your opinion.

[Vodomir]

In your opinion.

Applying common sense, what is actually supposed to be working as intended, if you bring a non-intended setup (1 tank, 3 healers), deliberately wait a couple of minutes prior to actually starting to DPS and all of that just for the sole reason to circumvent all of the mechanics the fight has to offer? So you really think the fight was designed for a 1 tank, 3 healer group? You think they put an enrage timer in place for people to just intentionally wait for its expiration? You really think they designed all of the actual fight mechanics just so they can be circumvented?

[Ashira]

Things.

I'm of the opinion that SE designed their game with multiple methods for any encounter in mind. People were doing a single tank and two-three healers for Titan Hard Mode when it was first released. Do you think all content should be 2/4/2? How boring.

As for circumventing mechanics; you can remove them anyway by defeating more nodes. You should wave your fist at people max ranging Chimera or not feeding Caduceus too.

[Vodomir]

I'm of the opinion that SE designed their game with multiple methods for any encounter in mind. People were doing a single tank and two-three healers for Titan Hard Mode when it was first released. Do you think all content should be 2/4/2? How boring.

As for circumventing mechanics; you can remove them anyway by defeating more nodes. You should wave your fist at people max ranging Chimera or not feeding Caduceus too.

While designing fights to be tackled using multiple methods definitely is a good thing, common sense tells you that the enrage strat was not on the list methods, that SE designed this fight for.

The enrage timer was not designed for people to go on a cigarette break to deliberately wait for its expiration. The debuff on the tanks was put in place so bringing 2 tanks (as required by the usual party setup) actually makes sense, as the debuff requires tanks to swap emnity. You think the beduff was put in place for people to say "Well, lets just not pull until the last click has begin, so the debuff doesn't stack too high on the tank?

I asked you to apply common sense. If this is your way of applying common sense, then you must be delusional about whitewashing a strat that obviously belongs in a grey zone.

I'm not for always bringing a 2/4/2 setup, but I think SE (as any other MMO company) designs raids so they can be beaten start to finish with one and the same setup, without the need to change classes inbetween the turns.


As for the all so popular Caduceus "analogy" ... can you please stop comparing this to the enrage strat? It's not even on the same page. Caduceus is played with all of its mechanics being in place, yes you can ignore to feed an add, but this in turn means you will have to deal with higher stacks of the buff on Cadusceus - the core mechanics of the fight are never touched and therfore still intact. Caduceus also continues all of its regular attack pattern. Mechanics are not touched, circumvented or being broken in this fight. ADS enrage is a totally different thing. ADS doesn't use any of its regular attacks anymore. None of its mechanics (the tank debuff, RoT, repell cannon, the laser, and various other abilities inherited from the smaller nodes) comes into play anymore, the ADS virtually stops all of its attacks. You clearly circumvent game mechanics.

[Ashira]

More things.

I would argue that the hardest part of Caduceus was having one or two members kiting adds, while trying not to range them and/or be killed by them at the same time. The add kiting made it really tough for the healers, until we figured out we could just ignore them entirely; stand on the spot and nuke the bosses. You do realise that by ignoring the adds there are no remaining mechanics? The fight becomes a tank and spank.

Common sense would tell you that if SE have no desire to change something then it's working as intended. It Baffles me that you think they could have overlooked this strategy when they input the enrage numbers and programmed him to cease all of his attacks; they're not idiots.