The problem with allowing Turn 2 Rage strat

[Shirai]

( But I bet no one will join you lolz )

According to the responses, plenty will.

That said, not sure if I am happy or disappointed with the official response.
Still doesn't take away that some of the arguments and assumptions by both parties for and agains adjustments are quite amusing to read still.

[Viridiana]

I played Paladin and White Mage through titan HM and fell asleep at how easy it was when i went and did it for monk.

Wait, did you just imply that there was a job more boring than playing PLD on Titan Hard?

Why is this not considered an exploit, but doing the same thing to Twintania was considered an exploit?

Double standards.

The Twintania exploit resulted in the boss just standing there doing nothing for 80% of its life. Same with the Titan bug that resulted in him standing there trying to attack someone he couldn't reach from 100%->0%. As in, those two exploits completely and utterly broke the encounter while the remaining players could run around doing whatever they wanted and not fear anything.

The T2 strategy, on the other hand, is deliberately provoking the boss into action. Ironically, its enrage mode is easier to deal with than its normal mode. What it's not doing, however, is standing there completely immobilized while the players kill it at their leisure.

Not a double standard. A clearly defined standard that, thus far, seems to have been enforced.

[Sax]

Dark Devices showed 'player ingenuity' but SE stomped on it .. this is as much an 'exploit' as the DD one or the AK 'bypass the trash' one, SE are inconsistent in their application of the concept of 'exploit'.

You're only arguing it isn't because this is an exploit you probably use, unlike some others you didn't (or weren't able to even though you wanted to).

People are arguing it's not an exploit because SE have said this is not an exploit (shocking right?). DD was not an exploit. Skipping trash in dungeons was not exploits either. They were only changed because of people like you screaming like a banshee about it. Exploits, exploits, everywhere!!! Standing in the tree for AK first boss to avoid all AoE dmg was an exploit. Sometimes I wonder if half of you even know what an exploit actually is.... - Little hint: It's not when someone does something differently to how you think it should be done.

[TAS]

If there are currently no plans to adjust this, then at least give the rot method a purpose. A reward, a bonus, an achievement, something... otherwise what's the point? You might as well remove all of the ADS mechanics since rage mode has become the standard amongst the player base. I personally prefer to deal with the mechanics because I feel it makes the fight a little edgier and it takes a little more degree of skill, but it's hard when ppl leave your party after learning that it isn't an enrage party (despite my specifying in PF).

All I'm saying is give dealing with the mechanics of the ADS a little more bang for your buck. If you complete the run within the time limit before enrage, maybe reward that with two chests. If you're trying to do it with a pickup heavy party, and you don't wish to endure hours of wipes b/c one or more ppl struggle with the mechanics, and you just want to clear the damn thing, then make the enrage method only reward one chest.

[TAS]

Or if you complete Turn 2 within the time limit before enrage, perhaps reward a third chest instead of taking one away if you don't. Instead of gear, the third chest could contain a housing item or some other rare/valuable item worth some $$$.

Just my thoughts...

[Nel_Celestine]

If there are currently no plans to adjust this, then at least give the rot method a purpose. A reward, a bonus, an achievement, something... otherwise what's the point?

The reward is five minutes of your life back every week to do whatever else is in game. I can understand why people use this. I've tried both methods myself. what boggles my brain is how, within the time limit, we can kill more nodes and have time to kill the boss but the boss hard rages. Using High Voltage every 2 seconds. Yet the enrage method is clearly easier. If players are geared enough to take down more then 3 nodes before fighting the ADS, they really shouldn't be punished for that.

[Geobryn]

The reward is five minutes of your life back every week to do whatever else is in game. I can understand why people use this. I've tried both methods myself. what boggles my brain is how, within the time limit, we can kill more nodes and have time to kill the boss but the boss hard rages. Using High Voltage every 2 seconds. Yet the enrage method is clearly easier. If players are geared enough to take down more then 3 nodes before fighting the ADS, they really shouldn't be punished for that.

well you are buffed + punished with every killed node
as every node kill will take off one ability from the ADS, and also gives him one buff
if you want to kill more then 3 then don't kill the one with the attack speed buff, i guess

[Tupsi]

Lol Y'all mad?! My goodness. People are so concerned about stuff that doesn't really affect them (especially in STATIC GROUPS). Get over it

Yeah, it doesn't affect them, once they get to turn 3, since you know the "only" way they can clear 2 is 'enrage', if they somehow miraculously get past 3 (since you know, clearly it's only new people who do it) they'll be stuck on 4 forever because, you don't really need a full DPS check doing the 'enrage' method, the people you try to run with from 2-4 will never even see the first dreadnaught. So while yes it doesn't affect them..I thought the whole mantra as of late is "thinking about the community"? You do know what people do in this game collectively does affect us when it comes to updates...right?

Look at Praetorium, a common strategy was to leech/esuna the Bleeding effect so people can stand in the glorious blue fire and still DPS, it wasn't an exploit either because you simply removed a debuff as it is natural for a healer to do - SE programmed it that the fire itself does nothing..it was the bleed effect that caused damage, so of course they fixed it even though it wasn't reported really. SE watches and makes changes accordingly, usually for the worst, so you don't want to have the "just ignore it" mentality when it comes to certain things. It makes life easier, sure - but when SE updates the game...we usually see a lot of people complaining when their free candy gets taken away.

T2 is harder than T4 if you do them correctly.

Which means if you can't clear 2 you shouldn't be able to clear 4. Just like Titan, even SE basically admitted Titan was supposed to gate Relic acquisition because if you can't clear Titan, why should you get your relic? They said there were FAR more relics made than they anticipated.

If Turn 2 is harder than 4 (not really), this method negates that completely (which in turn would then actually be an exploit by definition) - when was the last time you played a FF game where (or any game) where a coutdown to "Im gonna kill you!" move does...basically nothing and you can live through it? I don't know about you, but Citadel buster in XI's Ultima usually killed everyone but a proper -mDT/Light Resistance set PLD, Ultima in Praetorium killed everyone when Ultima countdown finished if you didn't kill it, Ultima in Minstrel's Bane killed everyone if you took too long...

Let's face it, it's an oversight but due to Coil having nothing done to it till at least march, there's "nothing wrong with it", but once the update comes out, you can guarantee things will change even outside of the 'nerf of previous content.', why would they nerf something that already did nothing?

[Lionheart]

The only things I understood reading this topic, correct me if I'm wrong, are:
- some people stated this strat is an exploit
- SE let everyone know it is not
- some people (possibly the same of point one) keep arguing stating this is going to hurt the game, using the "I know this thing is going to ruin the game because I said it" argument

Now before saying: "Hey, but that is not the argument I'm using! I can tell by using sheer flawless logic and my superior knowledge of player base needs!", can anyone recall what is the number of topics about the same kind of catastrophic prophecies during alpha/beta...

Be good, play the way you like, post your feedback and when you get an answer from the team move on... your job is done.

[Inkin]

I personally don't want people who can't clear Turn 2 by dealing with a FEW mechanics to get on Turn 4 and suck like no before.