Item Level and You

[Purrfectstorm]

Ok, I hate the whole casual/hardcore dichotomy, a language designed to fracture the player base into two opposing camps and put them down for either playing too much or too little. The so-called "hardcore" players sometimes rightly get a bad rep for really unreasonable expectations (i.e. getting mad at players for not knowing every fight of a dungeon a day after it comes out).

However, requiring players to be a certain ilevel to join a group is not that.

Battles are tests and each one is designed to test certain things. Some will test your tanks, others your healers, and still others your dps. It should go without saying but having better gear will make all of these things easier. There is a certain point at which no matter how much skill you have, you simply cannot win because your gear isn't good enough. Yes, many battles are not just skill checks but gear checks.

Case in point, I played in a Titan HM party tonight that was fantastic. They never got hit by anything and everyone was always healed up to full health. We wiped for an hour and never getting past the heart phase. We'd come close and our level of skill was tantalizing. Surely we could win eventually right?

Wrong.

After several perfect attempts and having this same problem, I checked the gear of the DPS classes and discovered that it was terribly gimp. Oh, they were good players no doubt and we were doing everything right. But c'mon, there's a certain point at which fights are just impossible without proper gear.

Yes Skill is > Gear. We FF people trot this expression out all the time, yet some players go to extremes and act like gear is not important at all. Then they are insulted if you tell them they are not geared enough for a fight. It's not that you are being a jerk, you just realize the pointlessness of bashing your head against an unwinnable fight for an hour.

It makes no sense to go for relic before getting full DL or better. You're going to want that gear anyway right? And it's SO easy to get! Why go for relic in all green and white gear? Getting carried is not a plan anyone, casual or hardcore should endorse.

I hope to team up with the same group of players in the future, hopefully when they are better geared though

This from a filthy casual LOL

[ispano]

Might want to put your flame suit on. SE gave Titan HM a minimum ilvl of 57. Meaning SE feels(They likely have done it themselves) you could do it if everyone has gear at that level. Full DL is NOT needed for that particular fight. I agree that gear is important, but I think the people you ran with may not have been as good as you think they were.

[NintenPyjak64]

Might want to put your flame suit on. SE gave Titan HM a minimum ilvl of 57. Meaning SE feels(They likely have done it themselves) you could do it if everyone has gear at that level. Full DL is NOT needed for that particular fight. I agree that gear is important, but I think the people you ran with may not have been as good as you think they were.

I did Titan as BLM with AF1 body, the rest Demagouge, Garuda staff and HQ Zircon ring and Bracelet, and I was fairly high DPS (hell I was out DPSing people who had multiple pieces caster darklight ffs. This was long before 2.1). It really is more about skill then anything. In the OP's Titan attempts, somebody must have made some mistake, or just wore the wrong class jewelry just to enter Titan HM. I was not there so I can't vouch for why this happened nor do I know exactly what everybody was doing step for step, nor do I know IF in fact they were cheating the iLvl system

[Purrfectstorm]

Sure, 1 player w/ i57 isn't that bad, but the more players you have with that kind of gear the exponentially worse it gets. And I actually heard one player say they were hoping for a carry. But what if everyone joins a group hoping for a carry? LOL It gets quite absurd. And yes, I'm pretty sure my group was as good as I think they were. I've beaten it with far worse groups, too much struggle dealing enough damage.

[Purrfectstorm]

I did Titan as BLM with AF1 body, the rest Demagouge, Garuda staff and HQ Zircon ring and Bracelet, and I was fairly high DPS (hell I was out DPSing people who had multiple pieces caster darklight ffs. This was long before 2.1). It really is more about skill then anything. In the OP's Titan attempts, somebody must have made some mistake, or just wore the wrong class jewelry just to enter Titan HM. I was not there so I can't vouch for why this happened nor do I know exactly what everybody was doing step for step, nor do I know IF in fact they were cheating the iLvl system

You use the highest DPS class for your example.

[NintenPyjak64]

You use the highest DPS class for your example.

I was out DPSing other casters who had better gear then I did, and technically at the time, Monk and Summoner are higher DPS then BLM if played correctly, especially in Titan where BLM has to keep moving. Better yet Titan is one of the last fights where Bards would reign supreme with how mobile they are

gear > skill.

you can be the greatest player but lack gear your not going to be strong enough to heal, dps, or tank.

Not always the case. I've played with people geared to the teeth yet played so terribly.

[indira]

gear > skill.

you can be the greatest player but lack gear your not going to be strong enough to heal, dps, or tank.

[FelisC]

Your gear has to be at a certain minimum to clear content; after that it's skill that matters.

If you have 2800 HP it's going to be hard to clear Titan HM, because you won't survive post-heart stomps without SS + Adlo, and if both of your healers and casters have that much HP you won't be able to get them all up in time... But if you have that minimum HP met and run it with 5 DPS, you can clear it no problem with a group that can dodge.

[ispano]

Sure, 1 player w/ i57 isn't that bad, but the more players you have with that kind of gear the exponentially worse it gets. And I actually heard one player say they were hoping for a carry. But what if everyone joins a group hoping for a carry? LOL It gets quite absurd. And yes, I'm pretty sure my group was as good as I think they were. I've beaten it with far worse groups, too much struggle dealing enough damage.

The problem is that is the gate required to get in, which usually means the devs have tested the content with that level of gear and deemed it doable. Does it get easier the better gear you have? Sure, but it's still doable at the minimum if people know how to play.

[chocomaid]

It makes no sense to go for relic before getting full DL or better. You're going to want that gear anyway right? And it's SO easy to get! Why go for relic in all green and white gear? Getting carried is not a plan anyone, casual or hardcore should endorse.

How did you measure their "skill" btw, just curious, sure they may have been able to dodge stuff and follow tactics but, how do you know their level of skill regarding their assigned job? Anyone has the possibility to dodge them plumes but if their rotations and CD management is poor then well... That may be the problem, not the gear.

It makes much less sense to get full DL or better to get your relic. Why do people need to overgear content to clear it? Where is the challenge gone? A party with full dl or better as you said will literally breeze through Titan HM one handed while drinking tea, assuming they are decently experienced with the fight.

It will definitely help but no not needed, a lot of players, including me have done Titan HM several times for their multiple relics with sub-optimal gear like the GC weapon along with greens from AK/WP plus the cheap craftable accessories, and grouped with like minded/geared people. The only thing that differs from us is a friend of mine (relic tank) who constantly helps me through the HM, and that shouldn't make much of a difference regarding your DPS problem.

The only thing that resulted in the introduction of ilvl is the stupidly high ilvl requirements made by people resulting in:
-players not being invited to raid groups and farm runs despite that they've cleared those content countless of times beforehand
(people asking for i90 for CT, i80 for WP, even though i70 or slightly lower geared people cleared them effortlessly before)
-animosity in the community
-elitism