Tank-specific tips for Extreme Primals

[Traek]

In high DPS groups, we simply zerg down Chirada and melee waits for Garuda to Wicked Wheel before diving in. Suparna should be dead before Garuda Wicked Wheels again.

This is what I like to do in my groups. It is annoying when the OT provokes Suparna through the twisters in these high DPS groups, because Suparna will be at around half when they provoke, and always Slipstreams when crossing the tornado. This leaves melee without any ability to DPS until Suparna is near dead, and they gotta walk back and forth between the tornado 2-3 times. It is much easier to leave on MT and the DD will down before Garuda's second WW. This is for high dps groups as stated though. If someone has died in phase transitions for one reason or another, definitely play it safe.

[Gamemako]

I've only beaten it once at this point (though I've watched and read a ton of guides and practiced quite a bit before my win), but the best method seems to be having the MT pulls Garuda and Suparna, OT pulls Chirada. All DPS focus Suparna and then switch to Chirada.

If you're all ranged, I honestly don't see a good reason not to ignore Chirada altogether and tank LB to survive link. You'll kill Garuda much faster this way.

Currently, with the more popular method of killing Chirada first, if spiney lands on the MT, the OT will have to provoke the spiney once Chirada is dead and the MT will have to eat a second DWW.

This is just incorrect. First, with Chirada dead, Suparna can't use Wicked Wheel. The MT will never have to eat two double WW unless the DPS is split between the sisters or your DPS is so bad that you're 2/3 of the way through the fight and still haven't downed either sister. Once Chirada is down, you eat one WW from Garuda, which hits you for 2500-3000 damage on WAR after IB and Foresight -- nothing to write home about. The threat with that particular screwup is that your melee DPS are in range of Garuda's WW, which can one-shot them. Additionally, it's the OT's job to take the spiny at the start of sister phase. There are no tornadoes for a while, so you just RoH/BB on Chirada, then provoke and Lobahawk the spiny. Most of the OT's job can be written as "don't panic!"

The method I used in my first kill

Gods, what a mess. As MT, you barely get any relief from dropping Suparna's WW because you get 2/3 of it in the form of Chirada's Downburst immediately before Garuda's WW. That MT is carrying the hell out of your group if he's taking Chirada, spiny, and Garuda all at once. The reason you don't do that is that unless your tank has memorized the exact timing of everything and can do it with no HUD at all, you can't see three targets at once. MT has Garuda on focus and a sister targeted, and that's all you can see at once -- while grabbing the spiny, your tank is literally blindfolded. More power to him if he can do it, but it's just plain inadvisable.

[Versiroth]

This is just incorrect. First, with Chirada dead, Suparna can't use Wicked Wheel. The MT will never have to eat two double WW unless the DPS is split between the sisters or your DPS is so bad that you're 2/3 of the way through the fight and still haven't downed either sister. Once Chirada is down, you eat one WW from Garuda, which hits you for 2500-3000 damage on WAR after IB and Foresight -- nothing to write home about. The threat with that particular screwup is that your melee DPS are in range of Garuda's WW, which can one-shot them. Additionally, it's the OT's job to take the spiny at the start of sister phase. There are no tornadoes for a while, so you just RoH/BB on Chirada, then provoke and Lobahawk the spiny. Most of the OT's job can be written as "don't panic!"

My bad on the second DWW. Also, most groups I've went into have told me (as OT) not to touch the spiny in twisters until someone has 2 stacks. Plus, I've found that at times, the spiny has to be provoked more than once in twisters. If you're trying to provoke spiny at the beginning of twisters as OT, I've found that Provoke normally isn't available when Chirada dies and the MT needs to provoke spiny from you. And then, if you provoke Suparna once provoke is available, the spiny will get to 2 stacks on the MT when your provoke is still on CD. Your method would make the most sense if the timing didn't get so weird at times with provoke and spiny. As is, you run the risk of getting super tornadoed due to provoke being down when you need it.

Gods, what a mess. As MT, you barely get any relief from dropping Suparna's WW because you get 2/3 of it in the form of Chirada's Downburst immediately before Garuda's WW. That MT is carrying the hell out of your group if he's taking Chirada, spiny, and Garuda all at once. The reason you don't do that is that unless your tank has memorized the exact timing of everything and can do it with no HUD at all, you can't see three targets at once. MT has Garuda on focus and a sister targeted, and that's all you can see at once -- while grabbing the spiny, your tank is literally blindfolded. More power to him if he can do it, but it's just plain inadvisable.

Our MT is i90 and amazing. He did all of that on his own. Yes, he carried the group (me), but he's the leader of our FC and again, he's awesome. Plus, you're definitely over reacting a bit. You don't have to keep the spiny targeted. Garuda is already on you, so, you RoH chirada, tab to spiny/provoke, then run to your corner. Once you get two stacks, you run back in so the OT can provoke. No blindfold needed.

[Gamemako]

My bad on the second DWW. Also, most groups I've went into have told me (as OT) not to touch the spiney in twisters until someone has 2 stacks.

Politely tell them that they have no idea what they're talking about.

Plus, I've found that at times, the spiney has to be provoked more than once in twisters.

That can technically happen if you provoke before it sets aggro (immediately at spawn, when you should be hitting Chirada) or if you don't hit it with additional enmity after provoke (MT cooldowns will generate enough enmity to take it back). All of this is, again, a matter of not panicking.

If you're trying to provoke spiney at the beginning of twisters as OT, I've found that Provoke normally isn't available when Chirada dies and the MT needs to provoke spiney from you.

It will always be available in time for the swap, hitting 2 stacks just as Provoke comes off cooldown (it applies 1 stack every 20 seconds).

And then, if you provoke Suparna once provoke is available, the spiney will get to 2 stacks on the MT when your provoke is still on CD.

There's not enough time for it to go off at all -- you swap once only per phase. The MT will then damage the spiny to prepare for jump and, when Garuda jumps, finishes the Spiny. You will never be hit by supercyclone.

[Lemon8or]

It will always be available in time for the swap, hitting 2 stacks just as Provoke comes off cooldown (it applies 1 stack every 20 seconds).

It doesn't unfortunately. Spiny sometimes can apply 1 stack right away or before the first 20 seconds is over. In solo healing party, if I OT, I usually find myself waiting on Provoke to be off CD (I pull suparna away from MT so melee can hit her safely) if I use it on Spiny right as it spawns.

[SirTaint]

I always recommend the OT vokes the spiney right away. Just makes things smoother especially in a DF group. I always MT Garuda EX and knowing the timing of my voke makes things much easier. Especially during twisters phase I know Suprana will be dead by the time I need to voke it off the OT making running to the middle less risky. During plumes phase the OT vokes it and takes it away from the clump so they can be AoEed down. If the OT takes it right away, he will hit 2 stacks right when Garuda does her 2nd slipstream, again making it easier on the MT.

Plus mages and DPS freak out when the spiney is on them.

I still think Garuda MT is the hardest fight to tank. (not that any are that hard) Anything you do to make it easier on the MT will make your farming much smoother.

[Raffounz]

Damn Square was trolling me, actually North on Ifrit is LEFT from the spawn point non straight forwar ^^ Now I understand my discussions with other tanks XD

[Lemon8or]

The safest bet is to rage of halone chirada, provoke and shield lob spiny at start followed by flash and circle of scorn. Depends on your DPS, MT will either provoke spiny off you first or you provoke Suparna off him first. There's really no need for melee to risk it with Wicked Wheel.
If you zoom out all the way, Suparna should still be on the bottom of your screen. I usually bait the slipstream first to go provoke safely since you got 20 seconds is over. Of course, I see it as soon as OT has 2 stacks so that's my cue for baiting. If you mess up the timing, just use a CD to eat it. Slipstream doesn't hurt that bad.

[Versiroth]

The safest bet is to rage of halone chirada, provoke and shield lob spiny at start followed by flash and circle of scorn. Depends on your DPS, MT will either provoke spiny off you first or you provoke Suparna off him first. There's really no need for melee to risk it with Wicked Wheel.

I'm still learning this fight, for sure, but I just find that too many things can go wrong here. For instance, I've had the DD pull Chirada off of me when I tabbed to provoke spiny. I RoH as soon as she appeared, CoS, RoH (Both uncomboed.. just trying to get some quick threat so I could grab spiny quickly), tabbed to spiny, provoked, lobbed, ran toward my corner and Chirada turned and raced towards the Bard before I could do anything else. I also once had a situation where I provoked both spiny and Chirada and Chirada died fast, the MT provoked the spiny and I had to wait for Suparna. Once Provoke was up, I grabbed Suparna. She died quickly and once the circle phase started again, the spiny went to the MT and I had to wait another 10 second or so before my provoke came off CD. The problem here was that the DD were stacked on Garuda to AOE the plumes. I had to scream and <se.2> that I couldn't provoke yet so they wouldn't go crazy and kill the spiny with AOEs.

I've just found that certain parameters can make swapping unreliable. It's a lot safer for melee and it takes a little pressure off the MT, but the timing can really get weird.

[Lemon8or]

I use Rage of Halone combo'd. Typically how: Fight or Flight -> Fast Blade Garuda as soon as she lands -> Savage Blade Chirada -> Provoke Spiny (since it's oGCD) -> Shield Lob Spiny -> Rage of Halone Chirada -> Circle of Scorn -> Flash. If your DD is slightly intelligent and doesn't blow their loads right away, this should keep Chirada on you. You don't run towards your corner immediately. There are time between sisters spawning and tornadoes/buffs appearing. Make sure you get aggro on both THEN run. The case happens if DPS is fast, like I said sometimes MT provoke Spiny before your Provoke is back up but that's no problem. If you provoke right away in tornado phase and as soon as it's up to grab Suparna, it should be up by the time eye phase starts. You know it'll be fine if you see it has 10 seconds or less left when Spiny explodes, given that it explodes before Garuda lands. If it's not, ask your DPS to wait till your provoke is up to pull Spiny away. Good DPS will stack on Garuda and blow those feathers up in a matter of seconds with flare and wide volley. It's not a problem, it's your DPS not paying attention to Spiny. Get better DPS.