Tank-specific tips for Extreme Primals

[bokchoykn]

Not entirely true. I can usually have my Sentinel up a few seconds before the next double Wicked Wheel. It's not a guarantee, but it is possible to do, even with really high DPS.

After the initial sisters phase, Garuda transitions into the next phase after a certain amount of time or when she reaches 55% HP, whichever comes first.

Therefore, the duration between the first two sisters phases varies, depending on how much DPS you have. You might have Sentinel barely before the next Wicked Wheel, but someone else's group might have better DPS.

[Versiroth]

It's bad game design, but melee really do make Garuda X a lot more difficult than it has to be. I've only beaten it once at this point (though I've watched and read a ton of guides and practiced quite a bit before my win), but the best method seems to be having the MT pulls Garuda and Suparna, OT pulls Chirada. All DPS focus Suparna and then switch to Chirada.

Benefits:

1. The tanks only ever have to worry about provoking spiny. Currently, with the more popular method of killing Chirada first, if spiny lands on the MT, the OT will have to provoke the spiny once Chirada is dead and the MT will have to eat a second DWW. If Suparna is focused and killed first, the MT only has to worry about one DWW and the OT only has to worry about Chirada's downburst, which will never one shot him. Plus, with Suparna dying quickly, the MT won't have to dance around as many times avoiding double Slipstreams. Another advantage to this method is no teleport or feather rain thanks to Suparna dying before Chirada.

All in all, everything's easier. The MT only has one huge burst he has to CD up for each twister phase and provoking is always saved for the spiny plume alone. Plus you get to avoid mechanics like Feather Rain all together.

I suppose you could still do this method with one Melee DPS on Chirada as long as your ranged DPS was strong enough to three man down Suparna off the MT quickly.


The method I used in my first kill was all ranged, but I OT Suparna instead of Chirada. In the circle phase, I would provoke spiny first and keep it away from the group. In the twister phase, the MT grabbed Garuda, Chirada and spiney first and I took Suparna. The DPS killed Suparna off of me first, and I would then provoke the spiney off the MT. DPS switches to Chirada and kills her (MT would have to provoke spiny back near the end). This method is a lot more on the MT, having to hold two adds the whole time, but since there are no Wicked Wheels once Suparna dies, all he had to really worry about was eatting a single Wheel + Chirada's downburst and then when Suparna was dead, just the Chirada downburst. So, the damage he took wasn't too bad after Suparna was dead. But again, in this method, a Melee DPS would have had to dodge Suparna's WW and the range is so huge, it's very risky even if the tank tries to get Suparna into a corner (and sometimes, she simply doesn't want to move with you once the tornado's spawn). A Dragoon would be a little easier, since the can Elusive jump during Friction and then Spineshatter/dragonfire (depending on where the spiny is) back in.

[Serneum]

Therefore, the duration between the first two sisters phases varies, depending on how much DPS you have. You might have Sentinel barely before the next Wicked Wheel, but someone else's group might have better DPS.

I can agree with that. The group I usually run with from my FC tends to have relatively high DPS (Ex: we kill Garuda HM before the middle calm phase ever happens and we typically don't get a third sisters phase in Garuda Ex) and I can usually get Sentinel back before the double Wicked Wheel in the second sisters phase. If I know it won't be up, I prefer to use Hallowed Ground because I just don't trust the other cooldowns to save me even when used together. If a group had a lot of burst damage or a lot of crits on a specific run, I could definitely see the skill only being up some of the time, though

[Alkimi]

It's bad game design, but melee really do make Garuda X a lot more difficult than it has to be.

The way SE designed the fight was for the DPS to tank Chirada (sharing downburst damage), OT to tank Surpana and MT to keep Garuda. It's hardly their fault nobody (except JPs) is doing the fight the way they originally intended which is a safer method (no double wicked wheels) and a lot more melee friendly.

[bokchoykn]

The way SE designed the fight was for the DPS to tank Chirada (sharing downburst damage), OT to tank Surpana and MT to keep Garuda. It's hardly their fault nobody (except JPs) is doing the fight the way they originally intended which is a safer method (no double wicked wheels) and a lot more melee friendly.

I've never liked this method of doing Garuda EX.

I don't like it because it is a big compromise to DPS output. If melee has aggro on Chirada, he no longer has full access to flanking or rear attacks. Meanwhile, casters have to dodge Slipstreams and interrupt their spell casts.

The supposed benefits of handling Chirada this way are: no double wicked wheels and more melee-friendly. However, I've never perceived double wicked wheels as something that couldn't be handled with better cooldown usage from tanks and healers.

As for melee, even in low DPS groups, I've found that having DPS kill Chirada and then having the OT Provoke Suparna from the MT works perfectly. There is no risk of melee getting hit by Wicked Wheel. The OT needs to Provoke the Spiny Plume to start every Sisters + Great Whirlwind phase. By the time the MT needs to Provoke the Spiny from him, Provoke will have cooled down and Chirada should be dead.

In high DPS groups, we simply zerg down Chirada and melee waits for Garuda to Wicked Wheel before diving in. Suparna should be dead before Garuda Wicked Wheels again.

This might not be what S-E intended, but I think it is the more efficient strategy.

[Gamemako]

I've only beaten it once at this point (though I've watched and read a ton of guides and practiced quite a bit before my win), but the best method seems to be having the MT pulls Garuda and Suparna, OT pulls Chirada. All DPS focus Suparna and then switch to Chirada.

If you're all ranged, I honestly don't see a good reason not to ignore Chirada altogether and tank LB to survive link. You'll kill Garuda much faster this way.

Currently, with the more popular method of killing Chirada first, if spiney lands on the MT, the OT will have to provoke the spiney once Chirada is dead and the MT will have to eat a second DWW.

This is just incorrect. First, with Chirada dead, Suparna can't use Wicked Wheel. The MT will never have to eat two double WW unless the DPS is split between the sisters or your DPS is so bad that you're 2/3 of the way through the fight and still haven't downed either sister. Once Chirada is down, you eat one WW from Garuda, which hits you for 2500-3000 damage on WAR after IB and Foresight -- nothing to write home about. The threat with that particular screwup is that your melee DPS are in range of Garuda's WW, which can one-shot them. Additionally, it's the OT's job to take the spiny at the start of sister phase. There are no tornadoes for a while, so you just RoH/BB on Chirada, then provoke and Lobahawk the spiny. Most of the OT's job can be written as "don't panic!"

The method I used in my first kill

Gods, what a mess. As MT, you barely get any relief from dropping Suparna's WW because you get 2/3 of it in the form of Chirada's Downburst immediately before Garuda's WW. That MT is carrying the hell out of your group if he's taking Chirada, spiny, and Garuda all at once. The reason you don't do that is that unless your tank has memorized the exact timing of everything and can do it with no HUD at all, you can't see three targets at once. MT has Garuda on focus and a sister targeted, and that's all you can see at once -- while grabbing the spiny, your tank is literally blindfolded. More power to him if he can do it, but it's just plain inadvisable.

[Versiroth]

This is just incorrect. First, with Chirada dead, Suparna can't use Wicked Wheel. The MT will never have to eat two double WW unless the DPS is split between the sisters or your DPS is so bad that you're 2/3 of the way through the fight and still haven't downed either sister. Once Chirada is down, you eat one WW from Garuda, which hits you for 2500-3000 damage on WAR after IB and Foresight -- nothing to write home about. The threat with that particular screwup is that your melee DPS are in range of Garuda's WW, which can one-shot them. Additionally, it's the OT's job to take the spiny at the start of sister phase. There are no tornadoes for a while, so you just RoH/BB on Chirada, then provoke and Lobahawk the spiny. Most of the OT's job can be written as "don't panic!"

My bad on the second DWW. Also, most groups I've went into have told me (as OT) not to touch the spiny in twisters until someone has 2 stacks. Plus, I've found that at times, the spiny has to be provoked more than once in twisters. If you're trying to provoke spiny at the beginning of twisters as OT, I've found that Provoke normally isn't available when Chirada dies and the MT needs to provoke spiny from you. And then, if you provoke Suparna once provoke is available, the spiny will get to 2 stacks on the MT when your provoke is still on CD. Your method would make the most sense if the timing didn't get so weird at times with provoke and spiny. As is, you run the risk of getting super tornadoed due to provoke being down when you need it.

Gods, what a mess. As MT, you barely get any relief from dropping Suparna's WW because you get 2/3 of it in the form of Chirada's Downburst immediately before Garuda's WW. That MT is carrying the hell out of your group if he's taking Chirada, spiny, and Garuda all at once. The reason you don't do that is that unless your tank has memorized the exact timing of everything and can do it with no HUD at all, you can't see three targets at once. MT has Garuda on focus and a sister targeted, and that's all you can see at once -- while grabbing the spiny, your tank is literally blindfolded. More power to him if he can do it, but it's just plain inadvisable.

Our MT is i90 and amazing. He did all of that on his own. Yes, he carried the group (me), but he's the leader of our FC and again, he's awesome. Plus, you're definitely over reacting a bit. You don't have to keep the spiny targeted. Garuda is already on you, so, you RoH chirada, tab to spiny/provoke, then run to your corner. Once you get two stacks, you run back in so the OT can provoke. No blindfold needed.

[SirTaint]

I always recommend the OT vokes the spiney right away. Just makes things smoother especially in a DF group. I always MT Garuda EX and knowing the timing of my voke makes things much easier. Especially during twisters phase I know Suprana will be dead by the time I need to voke it off the OT making running to the middle less risky. During plumes phase the OT vokes it and takes it away from the clump so they can be AoEed down. If the OT takes it right away, he will hit 2 stacks right when Garuda does her 2nd slipstream, again making it easier on the MT.

Plus mages and DPS freak out when the spiney is on them.

I still think Garuda MT is the hardest fight to tank. (not that any are that hard) Anything you do to make it easier on the MT will make your farming much smoother.

[Traek]

In high DPS groups, we simply zerg down Chirada and melee waits for Garuda to Wicked Wheel before diving in. Suparna should be dead before Garuda Wicked Wheels again.

This is what I like to do in my groups. It is annoying when the OT provokes Suparna through the twisters in these high DPS groups, because Suparna will be at around half when they provoke, and always Slipstreams when crossing the tornado. This leaves melee without any ability to DPS until Suparna is near dead, and they gotta walk back and forth between the tornado 2-3 times. It is much easier to leave on MT and the DD will down before Garuda's second WW. This is for high dps groups as stated though. If someone has died in phase transitions for one reason or another, definitely play it safe.

[Gamemako]

My bad on the second DWW. Also, most groups I've went into have told me (as OT) not to touch the spiney in twisters until someone has 2 stacks.

Politely tell them that they have no idea what they're talking about.

Plus, I've found that at times, the spiney has to be provoked more than once in twisters.

That can technically happen if you provoke before it sets aggro (immediately at spawn, when you should be hitting Chirada) or if you don't hit it with additional enmity after provoke (MT cooldowns will generate enough enmity to take it back). All of this is, again, a matter of not panicking.

If you're trying to provoke spiney at the beginning of twisters as OT, I've found that Provoke normally isn't available when Chirada dies and the MT needs to provoke spiney from you.

It will always be available in time for the swap, hitting 2 stacks just as Provoke comes off cooldown (it applies 1 stack every 20 seconds).

And then, if you provoke Suparna once provoke is available, the spiney will get to 2 stacks on the MT when your provoke is still on CD.

There's not enough time for it to go off at all -- you swap once only per phase. The MT will then damage the spiny to prepare for jump and, when Garuda jumps, finishes the Spiny. You will never be hit by supercyclone.