Item Level and You

[Purrfectstorm]

Ok, I hate the whole casual/hardcore dichotomy, a language designed to fracture the player base into two opposing camps and put them down for either playing too much or too little. The so-called "hardcore" players sometimes rightly get a bad rep for really unreasonable expectations (i.e. getting mad at players for not knowing every fight of a dungeon a day after it comes out).

However, requiring players to be a certain ilevel to join a group is not that.

Battles are tests and each one is designed to test certain things. Some will test your tanks, others your healers, and still others your dps. It should go without saying but having better gear will make all of these things easier. There is a certain point at which no matter how much skill you have, you simply cannot win because your gear isn't good enough. Yes, many battles are not just skill checks but gear checks.

Case in point, I played in a Titan HM party tonight that was fantastic. They never got hit by anything and everyone was always healed up to full health. We wiped for an hour and never getting past the heart phase. We'd come close and our level of skill was tantalizing. Surely we could win eventually right?

Wrong.

After several perfect attempts and having this same problem, I checked the gear of the DPS classes and discovered that it was terribly gimp. Oh, they were good players no doubt and we were doing everything right. But c'mon, there's a certain point at which fights are just impossible without proper gear.

Yes Skill is > Gear. We FF people trot this expression out all the time, yet some players go to extremes and act like gear is not important at all. Then they are insulted if you tell them they are not geared enough for a fight. It's not that you are being a jerk, you just realize the pointlessness of bashing your head against an unwinnable fight for an hour.

It makes no sense to go for relic before getting full DL or better. You're going to want that gear anyway right? And it's SO easy to get! Why go for relic in all green and white gear? Getting carried is not a plan anyone, casual or hardcore should endorse.

I hope to team up with the same group of players in the future, hopefully when they are better geared though

This from a filthy casual LOL

[ispano]

Might want to put your flame suit on. SE gave Titan HM a minimum ilvl of 57. Meaning SE feels(They likely have done it themselves) you could do it if everyone has gear at that level. Full DL is NOT needed for that particular fight. I agree that gear is important, but I think the people you ran with may not have been as good as you think they were.

[NintenPyjak64]

Might want to put your flame suit on. SE gave Titan HM a minimum ilvl of 57. Meaning SE feels(They likely have done it themselves) you could do it if everyone has gear at that level. Full DL is NOT needed for that particular fight. I agree that gear is important, but I think the people you ran with may not have been as good as you think they were.

I did Titan as BLM with AF1 body, the rest Demagouge, Garuda staff and HQ Zircon ring and Bracelet, and I was fairly high DPS (hell I was out DPSing people who had multiple pieces caster darklight ffs. This was long before 2.1). It really is more about skill then anything. In the OP's Titan attempts, somebody must have made some mistake, or just wore the wrong class jewelry just to enter Titan HM. I was not there so I can't vouch for why this happened nor do I know exactly what everybody was doing step for step, nor do I know IF in fact they were cheating the iLvl system

[Purrfectstorm]

I did Titan as BLM with AF1 body, the rest Demagouge, Garuda staff and HQ Zircon ring and Bracelet, and I was fairly high DPS (hell I was out DPSing people who had multiple pieces caster darklight ffs. This was long before 2.1). It really is more about skill then anything. In the OP's Titan attempts, somebody must have made some mistake, or just wore the wrong class jewelry just to enter Titan HM. I was not there so I can't vouch for why this happened nor do I know exactly what everybody was doing step for step, nor do I know IF in fact they were cheating the iLvl system

You use the highest DPS class for your example.

[NintenPyjak64]

You use the highest DPS class for your example.

I was out DPSing other casters who had better gear then I did, and technically at the time, Monk and Summoner are higher DPS then BLM if played correctly, especially in Titan where BLM has to keep moving. Better yet Titan is one of the last fights where Bards would reign supreme with how mobile they are

gear > skill.

you can be the greatest player but lack gear your not going to be strong enough to heal, dps, or tank.

Not always the case. I've played with people geared to the teeth yet played so terribly.

[Vhailor]

Might want to put your flame suit on. SE gave Titan HM a minimum ilvl of 57. Meaning SE feels(They likely have done it themselves) you could do it if everyone has gear at that level. Full DL is NOT needed for that particular fight. I agree that gear is important, but I think the people you ran with may not have been as good as you think they were.

SE also put Pharos Sirius as an iLevel 48 dungeon; I would pay good money to see their development team successfully complete that dungeon with gear that bad.

In response to the OP: You're right that gear is important. I don't think casual players or hardcore players would dispute this, though. I've yet to run into someone who acted as if skill was everything and gear nothing; I'd also wager that anyone who made a statement like that was simply venting and not being totally serious.

[ispano]

SE also put Pharos Sirius as an iLevel 48 dungeon; I would pay good money to see their development team successfully complete that dungeon with gear that bad.

In response to the OP: You're right that gear is important. I don't think casual players or hardcore players would dispute this, though. I've yet to run into someone who acted as if skill was everything and gear nothing; I'd also wager that anyone who made a statement like that was simply venting and not being totally serious.

You know PS is much easier than people make it out to be, right?

[Sylve]

You know PS is much easier than people make it out to be, right?

PS is only hard to people who have no concept of mechanics.
Killing just 1 egg makes Zu pointlessly easy.
Slowing DPS on the first boss during the last 30% so you don't get overwhelmed by dogs makes him stupid easy.
Stunning Lunatic and having everyone properly avoid the AoE song makes Siren cake.

People just want to tunnel DPS bosses and ignore the mechanics.

[Shizato]

I think the people you ran with may not have been as good as you think they were

pretty much this ^ : I personally cant stay alive in Titan HM yet, and i KNOW its because im not good enough yet, not because of my gear - i wear full DL gear as a WHM when i try to do him, i just dont move in time, thats all

[Amyas]

pretty much this ^ : I personally cant stay alive in Titan HM yet, and i KNOW its because im not good enough yet, not because of my gear - i wear full DL gear as a WHM when i try to do him, i just dont move in time, thats all

Honestly that's a whole other story. Even if you *could* dodge, if you're wearing all af gear with a white/ltn/crafted wep, as a whm, you *will not* survive stomps after heart phase, and if you do, its because either you were too busy healing yourself or your other healer was. Everything in this game is a gear check.