Man up Tanks!

[Muzy]

*snip*

So not true, in regards to tanks only bailing because the rest of the party was "bad", I have seen tanks bail on runs where everyone was geared fine and doing fine, but not overgeared and the tank tried to speed run it then when they couldn't do that just bailed. Or the party wasn't super overgeared and the tank just bails before the first pull 'cause they feel it's a waste of time doing dungeons with people less geared than that. Or the group is inexperienced, makes a mistake or two and then decides it's not worth the time to help them out when people did that for them when they were gearing up and learning the fights.

In regards to people knowing the fights/gearing up for the dungeons before hand... The dungeons drop gear that is supposed to be an upgrade to gear you already posses, and a fair amount of people can watch videos over and over and read strats until their eyes go square and still won't learn the fight until they do it.

[Kitru]

In terms of opportunity cost of leaving, another thing to think about is that if you play as a tank or a healer, you (often) have significantly more control over whether the party succeeds or not. If you are a good tank, you don't have to deal with bad tanks. If you are a good healer, you don't have to deal with bad healers. If a group has a good tank and a good healer, it usually only needs acceptable dps to get through the challenge.

It's a really interesting point you bring up, but it should also be mentioned that the inverse is also true. While you may be able to *succeed* with a good tank, good healer, and 2 bad/mediocre DPS, if the DPS are behaving in such a way that it makes the tank have to work harder to make up for their screw ups (which often happens with bad DPS, whether it be the tank having to kill or tank adds that the DPS should, normally, be able to handle themselves or the DPS targeting separate enemies on every trash pull and unloading absolutely everything they've got straight away), the opportunity cost for leaving is a lot *lower* because the benefit of choosing to remain is lowered.

The same can also be said of a tank with a bad healer or a healer (or even a DPS) with a bad tank: if someone else is doing their job poorly or not at all, even if you *can* still succeed, the relative opportunity cost shrinks because you're getting less by staying. If it were simply weighing the chances of success or the amount of loot/xp per minute, such that completing a run as opposed to enjoying the run (in this sense, I would say that completing the run isn't the point but rather that completing the run increasing enjoyment by a *very* significant amount even if you are almost entirely goal oriented) were the governing factor in determining whether you stayed or not, you can say that the increased control that tanks and healers exert upon group end success constitutes a relative increase in opportunity cost but the increase control over success also translates into an increased sensitivity towards the quality of the rest of your group from an enjoyment perspective.

It's another one of those cases where it depends upon the player themself as to how they choose to interpret those factors. In my personal deliberations, I place a lot of emphasis value on players' competence (i.e. how much slack have to pick the slack due to idiocy and a reticence to learning what to do correcting instead of just poor gear, bad luck, or lack of experience) as well as personal interactions (i.e. whether and how they're actually interacting via chat), such that, even if a dungeon is going *incredibly* well, I've got no problem leaving and eating the 30 minute downtime because I found the run to be incredibly frustrating and unenjoyable or sticking around for a group that isn't likely to succeed because I'm enjoying the company regardless. I've got FCmates, on the other hand, who really only care about how the run is going and will the second they decide that success isn't likely (or as likely as they want) even if the people they're running with are highly interactive and engaging.

[wonka11]

Wonka11 Some people learn by doing not watching a youtube video.

Reading most of these posts about people justifying bailing are missing the point. My op was about tanks bailing in the first minute, or after first boss in wp or ak. With perfectly good parties that i had no trouble completing dungeons with. Man up if its an under geared pt or inexperienced. Don't justify being an elitest douchebag.

Edit: not calling wonka a douchebag, I mean in general.

Ill say it again, saying anything to the contrary is arbitrary and selfish. You can watch the video, know what to expect, and then learn the feel of it by doing it. If you're seriously going to try to argue the counterpoint, you'll just end up looking ridiculous.

The job description is labeled tank, not carry.

[EvilHippie]

How is it arbitrary and selfish to learn by doing? Even if you have watched the videos and read the strategies you can get an idea, yes, but actually doing it is what teaches you. I believe the term is called practicing. Knowing a job is the start, but every dungeon is different. I can watch a video and learn the mechanics but that doesn't teach me a complete way to run anything. To say that everyone should enter a dungeon and know everything is the type of elitest way of thinking i am talking about. And that is what is rediculous. It annoys me that people bail so easily. Unless you build the pt yourself then don't expect everyone to know anything. In a df pt you get a mix of experienced and inexperienced players. Stick it out, you may even meet someone who learns quickly and is worth the time to run with.

[Runsell]

I bailed yesterday of coil T4 because I was lagging and couldn't keep aggro of mobs. But I always notify the group in a nice manner telling that I wont be of help to the group and I dont want to waste people time.

[Firefly]

To all of those arguing to "watch a video" of a fight to learn it; have you ever heard of immersion, spoilers, or cheating? Some people choose not to watch videos because they want to be surprised by their first experience in a game. Some think that knowing before-hand is plain and simple cheating. This isn't a board game with an instruction manual, this is a role-playing-game. The story line has you going into these scenarios blindly, so knowing everything before-hand breaks immersion. I'm not saying its wrong for people to watch videos, but I am saying it's fine that they don't. It is just as viable to learn by doing. People can look for patterns to react to and avoid. They can learn through failure. It's OK, people.

And to anyone who thinks bailing on learning players is cool, just remember you were new at this once, too. Even if you watched the video, you had to learn the fight and dungeon mechanics somehow.

[Bixby]

"No reason" is actually "a reason I disagree with." Or "a reason I don't actually know anything about, but I'll assume the worst and chalk it up as one I disagree with." Cynicism is a poison. What you assume when you have no actual information says far more about you than it does about the people about whom you're making assumptions.

Is a player who happens to be in a tanking role* at the time you encounter them bailing because they're frustrated and suffering an overdose of ego? Or is it because things went wrong and it's always the tank's fault and they're ashamed and embarrassed? Or because they've come to the end of a very bad day and just can't take another round? Or has RL provided a sudden and unexpected interruption?

I've done all of those. I've also bowed out with profuse apologies. I've also stuck it out through failure after failure. The person you encounter at any given time does not represent anyone other than themselves at that particular moment.

Bailing isn't a good thing. Doesn't matter what role you're in. But the only thing you have any real control over is how you react when it happens.

*Remember, not everyone is into their role of the moment to the same degree. Some are relatively new. Some are old and bitter. Some are just doing it for the queue.

[Lucavern]

Snip OP.

I'm sorry that you have such a self-centered view as to think that each and every one of your fellow players must bow to your desires. How dare us have unique personalities or real-life events that may cause us to either not want to engage in our entertainment source with specific other individuals, or may prompt us to depart in the midst of an event. I'm sorry that there are people who do not chose to surrender themselves to a random grouping of people whom they may have no prior contact with or may never see again.

[EvilHippie]

Then don't use the Duty finder and waste the dps' time. And please do not make a self centered statement while pointing out i am self centered.

[EvilHippie]

Just came across this on the forums, so apparently its been going on.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...el%29-Abandons