Why leave your shield at home!?

[wind]

Having block with defender I will match up closely with MRD's defender II.
(Glad's can also lvl all the way up for defender II)

Foresight will eat a hit every 30secs, aegis eats 4 hits roughly on avg every 45secs.
2350HP on my glad (would need #'s of a MRD's hp) to vs it
Glad has access to warmonger for AOE tanking, MRD's dont have access to wardrum(30sec aoe taunt)

Lastly, more HP doesn't equal mitigation. MRD are good tanks don't get me wrong but they wont beat a glad as its one of the few classes that is actually unique in its role to all the others.

[Rentahamster]

MRDs and PGLs can be good tanks too, yes, but not as good as a dedicated tanking GLD.

If you've got a glut of mages and can handle spamming cure over and over again, then sure, use a MRD tank, but otherwise it's just easier to let the GLD do it.

[Wooba]

And that is the issue. This game is about Class Customization. Where is the customization with GLA? Putting on different taunts? GLA has 1 role and 1 role only, while MRD and PGL have two roles, DD and Tank.

Here are the HP values from a R50 MRD in my Linkshell with 174 vit Base: 2383 (2595) Second number is obviously with gear. My base HP with 174 Vit at R49 is 2119. At R50 I'll probably get close to 2200 HP base. Even in full Plate, my HP will likely still be only close to the Base HP of a R50 MRD with capped Vit.

The only area a GLA is better than a MRD is in Defense. As far as I know Shield stats only come into effect if you are guarding, as when you equip a Shield your stats don't change. This means if you keep your shield up constantly, you will take less damage than a MRD.

Where MRD beats out the GLA is the fact that they can basically DD and Tank at the same time. MRD has a lot of debuffs, and Maim can let a MRD do some extra damage while tanking from the front. I've seen a setup for a MRD that had them casting Debuffs on the enemy via THM spells, as well as WS debuffs, and self-buffs. That MRD was easily the most damaging person in the party (except for maybe the Archers) and he was also Tanking. GLA are limited to Tanking only. We could try to hybrid tank it, but it likely wouldn't go well since our damage is pathetic.

I think we should agree to disagree. It is likely a matter of preference, individual setup and what you are fighting. GLA will be better in some situations, MRD will be better in others, and PGL will be better in the rest. A lot of the time it just seems like the role of the GLA is easily replaced by another class.

MRDs and PGLs can be good tanks too, yes, but not as good as a dedicated tanking GLD.

If you've got a glut of mages and can handle spamming cure over and over again, then sure, use a MRD tank, but otherwise it's just easier to let the GLD do it.

GOLDSMITH TANK FTW!

[Rentahamster]

GOLDSMITH TANK FTW!

"Bold Synthesis" generates crazy amounts of enmity, didn't you know that?

[Solipse]

And that is the issue. This game is about Class Customization. Where is the customization with GLA? Putting on different taunts? GLA has 1 role and 1 role only, while MRD and PGL have two roles, DD and Tank.

Here are the HP values from a R50 MRD in my Linkshell with 174 vit Base: 2383 (2595) Second number is obviously with gear. My base HP with 174 Vit at R49 is 2119. At R50 I'll probably get close to 2200 HP base. Even in full Plate, my HP will likely still be only close to the Base HP of a R50 MRD with capped Vit.

The only area a GLA is better than a MRD is in Defense. As far as I know Shield stats only come into effect if you are guarding, as when you equip a Shield your stats don't change. This means if you keep your shield up constantly, you will take less damage than a MRD.

That's not entirely true, though. Gladiators get access to great utility from sentinel like shield bash (damage + stun). They also have huge amounts of clickie defensive abilities to mitigate damage. Now add in the amazing synergy between Rage of Halone, Cadence and Still Precision/other defense lowering abilities. Lower your defense as much as possible, load up cadence and other AP boosts and drop a rage of halone.

Further, as far as the hp vs defense issue, defense is far more effective than hp in almost every case. Reason being is exactly what you noted - shield blocks reduce damage by a crazy amount. Using a scutum, with a 99% block chance, and using the glad ability to double the length of guard, you reduce damage by a percentile many times greater than the hp delta between glad and maruder.

[IndecentSoul]

Read to page 3 and currently reading the rest but one thing that has been bugging me that I had to post is GLA is complaining about only being able to do one role. But then there are other classes that have the same problem.

Do you see archers complaining they cannot tank? I mean this is a game about customization correct? Then if I want to tank on my archer I should be able to tank.

And what about lancers too? Why can't I tank on my lancer? Well I mean I could but with my lower then archer Hp and barely any mitigation I wouldn't be able to tank very well.

Gladiator can tank really well but has sub par damage.

Archer can do really good damage but can't tank.

While you may want the game to be fully customizable everyone can do everything. I just don't see that as being plausible. If you want to do damage move to a damage dealing weapon. If you want to tank be use a weapon designed to tank.

If you want to do everything well then you are just sore outta luck.

Well that's just my 2 cents

[LoremIpsum]

I play Glad because I like swords and I dont see why that should be synonimous with tanking. SE need to broaden what we can do with Glad.

[Zkieve]

saying a mrd or a pug can tank better than a glad is only saying how little you know about the game .
Also , idk who said glad cant do decent damage , glad have an excellent dot dmg , if you arent tanking.
Lets compare them to ffxi classes by example,

MRD is a WAR with MNK HP,
Pugi have the tanking abilities of a THF, not even a nin.
Glad have the defensive abilities of a PLD and can do DMG as a NIN.

Here are the HP values from a R50 MRD in my Linkshell with 174 vit Base: 2383 (2595) Second number is obviously with gear. My base HP with 174 Vit at R49 is 2119. At R50 I'll probably get close to 2200 HP base. Even in full Plate, my HP will likely still be only close to the Base HP of a R50 MRD with capped Vit.
While i agree mrd have more HP , at 50 fully buffed i have on glad 2510 HP, do we really need more ? not really.If you put 174 VIT on MRD your offensive abilities will be under mediocre.


The only area a GLA is better than a MRD is in Defense. As far as I know Shield stats only come into effect if you are guarding, as when you equip a Shield your stats don't change. This means if you keep your shield up constantly, you will take less damage than a MRD.

Where MRD beats out the GLA is the fact that they can basically DD and Tank at the same time. MRD has a lot of debuffs, and Maim can let a MRD do some extra damage while tanking from the front. I've seen a setup for a MRD that had them casting Debuffs on the enemy via THM spells, as well as WS debuffs, and self-buffs. That MRD was easily the most damaging person in the party (except for maybe the Archers) and he was also Tanking. GLA are limited to Tanking only. We could try to hybrid tank it, but it likely wouldn't go well since our damage is pathetic.
Glad with Mrd abilities ----> Mrd with glad abilities ,,,X a million.Level mrd and you will see how big the difference is .

[Alderton]

Aegis Boon II for about 17 seconds using a Vintage Kite Shield
Deflection for about 17 more seconds
Sentinel + whatever else is up or cross-classed while the above two are down.

That shield, plus a few nice abilities GLA gets, make damage mitigation crazy good on GLA. No class can match it (except a thm with a few broken abilities atm, but that's an entirely different arguement). To say that GLA is the worst class in the game is a bit of a silly statement. It may take us a bit longer to kill things solo, but if we are playing correctly, we won't die.

And HP at the moment isn't that big of a deal, especially considering the damage reduction we can do. With the way healing is at the moment, if you aren't killed in one shot, you have enough HP.

[Solipse]

If you can completely nullify 10 hits every minute or so on gladiator, then who the hell cares if they have less HP than a marauder? If you get low on hp, use a mitigation ability, throw up shield block and buy your healers more than enough time to top you off.

If you put 174 VIT on MRD your offensive abilities will be under mediocre.

Actually, not only will your offensive abilities be horrible, but your defensive abilities will be as well. Strength ups the effectiveness of guard, so if you don't have high strength, you are minimalizing what is perhaps your greatest tanking utility.

Assume that a mob will hit both an unguarding gladiator and a marauder about the same, at 250, and doesn't use weapon skills. Assume also that both of them will not cast a single heal (but abilities that heal are fine) in the course of attacking the mob. Assume the mob has unlimited HP and will kill them both in the end. Assume both of them have both jobs to 50 (and have the cross class's mastery ability on). Finally, assume the mob hits every 2 seconds exactly.

How many hits can each of them take? (trying to factor in affinity, here). Things requiring steadfast will be much more effective for marauders. Note that, with guard, I am being very generous to the marauder - on all but the biggest enemies it is more than 50% effective

Marauder :
Bloodbath II ( +250 hp/60s )
Defender II (+300 hp/30s)
Foresight II (+250 hp/30s)
Rampart (+125hp/300s)

Starting HP: 2500
Over first 20 seconds, the marauder is hit 10x for 2500 hp and uses all 4 abilities when the last has worn off (so as to get full benefit from each). Current HP = 2500 – 2500 + 250 + 300 +250 + 125 = 925
Marauder dies at 28 seconds after taking +1000 more damage.

Gladiator (First # unguarded, second guarded):
Bloodbath II ( +150 hp/60s )
Defender II (+125 hp/30s )
Foresight II (+250 hp : +125 hp/30s)
Guard (+1250 hp/20s → 22s after first use, based on Decorated Iron Scutum)
Deflection (+100 hp : +60 hp/60s)
Obsess II (+60 hp : +35 hp/45s)
Aegis Boon II (+1200 : +700 hp/60s – 4 fully blocked hits, plus some healing from each)
Sentinel ( +100 hp : +50 hp/60s )
Outmaneuver (+60 hp : +30 hp/60s )
Rampart ( +150 hp : +100 hp/300s )

Starting HP : 2200
Gladiator uses guard and is hit 10x for 2500 * .5 damage = 1250.
In the first 18 seconds he uses Rampart (back up at 302s), Defender 2 (back up at 36s), Foresight 2 (back up at 38s), Obsess II (back up at 57s) and Aegis ( at 16s, back up at 76s )
Total HP = 2200 – 1250 + 100 + 125 + 125 + 35 + 575 (three negated hits and 200 healing) = 1910
One more negated hit from Aegis also allows him to spam guard to not take a full dmg hit.
Guard starts at 22s with HP=1910
Next 20 seconds, gladiator takes 1250 damage from hits again and uses Bloodbath 2 (back up at 82s), Sentinel (back up at 84s), Defender (back up at 66s), Foresight 2 (back up at 72s) Outmaneuver (at 40s, back up at 98s), Deflection (back up at 100s). He stacks Outmaneuver and Deflection at the end to mitigate the incoming un-guarded hit at 42s
At 42s Total HP = 1910 – 1250 – 250 + 150 + 50 + 125 + 60 + 80 = 975
Guard is used at 42s. Over the next 20s, gladiator takes 1250 damage from hits again and uses Obsess 2 (back up at 104s), Nothing else is up and he will die before guard finishes at:
( 975 hp + 35 = 1010 ) / 125 = ( 9 hits * 2 secs ) + 42s = 60 s

The gladiator will live a full minute, and this could probably be optimized quite a bit more. He will survive over twice as long as the marauder, even though the marauder has 20% more hp. If that gladiator could survive another 10 seconds or so, he would have foresight, a few other abilities and aegis popping and could probably limp along for another 30 seconds at least.

Gladiators are THE tanks, end of story.