how can end game be epic if we can hit multiple enemys?

[Oscillate_Wildly]

Everytime I hear someone refer to dungeons as "raids" and "raid content" I just want to flip a table. This isn't WoW, or a WoW clone, they were clear on that. Now Dynamis I never got a chance to do, but from what I gather it was 'pretty' damn hardcore as far as loot drops and currency. Now I wouldn't mind this, I think it gives LS's a weekly activity they could prepare for beforehand by gathering whatever they need to open the gates. This whole "join as you like" while spending a quarter of your attention on the battles 'raids' as you call them would be the ruin of this game.

WoW's gaming style is losing subscribers because the players they rely on, the ones that are so called hardcore, blow through content much too quickly. At least with XI's way of doing things, as far as 'end game content' like Dynamis, or Sky, it gave everyone something to try once more to do. With the update with NM's, the items dropped so quickly anyone who cared to have them all had them in under a week.

No we have not reached cap or even a point in time where we should be asking for endgame material. I understand this. But it's possible to create meaningful fights and dungeons without laying out 'red shirts' and a boss that can be taken down by a trio of thaumaturges like Dodore can be.

Fights like the shadow lord, or a burning circle NM, now those are fun. It's almost rewarding at the point when you save up enough faction points to do a NM leve at this point, even if you don't play a lot. But should you be able to solo EVERYTHING? No, my personal opinion is that you should be able to solo, but partying should be ideal. If anything, toning down the emphasis on Soloing would be a good start.

After all, why create a game on par with a F2P but still charge a monthly fee? XI was good in structure, how content was placed, it did very well. Before Abysea at least. After all, when you got to fight in your first storyline mission, wasn't it a let down? I remember the Dragon fight in Bastok and how I needed a group of friends to help me take it down. Now that was exciting, to come up with a battle strategy for a ragtag bunch with capped jobs not optimum for the fight. And that was rewarding.

And speaking of XIV's storyline battles, the very last one in place was an absolute let down. The mobs were down before I could even finish casting buffs and 2 cures on my hasty friends. There was no relief, absolutely nothing. There's a difference between having a boss combined with 2 peons, and XIV's system which is 2 peons and a bigger peon. They fall all the same and you can watch Netflix the entire time.

I have no problems with the current roving battle system, and I don't think anyone is asking for XI's horrendously tedious leveling to make a return, but the one thing they got right was endgame material, the feel, the excitement. It was all there. Just tone it down a SMIDGE and they'd be set. This isn't about XIV becoming XI-2, but XIV from the start should have evolved from what made XI great instead of focusing on dumbing their content down to the point where even 'casual' players are already bored.

[indira]

This isn't about XIV becoming XI-2, but XIV from the start should have evolved from what made XI great instead of focusing on dumbing their content down to the point where even 'casual' players are already bored.

you got it.

there plenty of stuff that was in ffxi that they could of re-used and made it its own thing, hell leves are the ffxiv version of fileds of valor quest. and thats the main catch to the game. dont see why they can do it to other things like ffxi's player search was the best thing to mmo's and they decided to dump it and make a shitty one for us.

but square is even using WOW terms with makes me think if they even care about making the game more than a monthly cash cow. even if populations are 50k people playing there still making 650K a month thats not bad when they start charging money

[Physic]

first off ill say yes ff11 was my first mmo and i loved it :\ so yes this is from that
but now to the point
to me what made stuff like dynamis epic in 11 is because it was against multiple enemys when the entire engine was mainly revolved about 1 enemy vs a party at a time and end game was completly different to the game. it added a diff strategy that was no where else in the game (yes mainly sleeping and kiting but that was something :| it ment u had to have blms and rdms wasted on sleeping) also the meele resistant ppl.
so to the main point
in 14 all i see end game and dungeons being is thiers a huge group of monsters tank runs in every1 goes in aoes the shit out of them they all die o hey thiers another group tank runs in every1 goes in aoes the shit out of them they all die o he.... so on
do ppl find this fun? is this rly what might come out of ff14?

dynamis was people aoeing shit down, you just were the wrong class, i rem mages timed nuke sleep aoeing dynamis to the ground.
your vision is just limited, you only see what was before, aoe isnt that simple for most classes, and positioning of the adds you aoe is important. it can be even more epic.

[Duelle]

idk, when i first faught fafnid my LS was bragging about how epic that and other HNMs like that scorpion and turtle were (i just dont care about the names anymore), then i fought them, i personally thought the lack of addons (lesser mobs) and the fact that you just zerg at timed intervals was boring, generic and it just visually looked slow paced.
at least with enemy groups you have to rely specific party mechanics to stay alive.
even though i only played WoW for like 6 months (i dont play cartoons), the pit of sarons first boss alone was instantly more fun than fafnid :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nfvb...eature=related

they kinda sucked, good damage dealers would have taken those bosses out quicker. WoW dungeons are so much more event-ful, i dont see how walking to and just zerging one boss like you do with FFXI HNMs is at all epic, especially to the modern MMO gamer.

This. Though if you wanted to use a boss from Icecrown Citadel 5-man instances, I would have used the two lieutenants from halls of reflection or James Brow--I mean, Bronjahm, the Godfather of Souls from Forge of Souls.

WoW's gaming style is losing subscribers because the players they rely on, the ones that are so called hardcore, blow through content much too quickly.

Not really. The reason WoW is losing subs is because the changes in design philosophy have backfired on them for the most part. This ranges from the mess that broke out with heroics during the first tier of content, the way raids were tuned (suddenly being melee DPS made things exponentially more difficult), to the even bigger mess PvP has turned out to be so far.

[Vanguard319]

first off ill say yes ff11 was my first mmo and i loved it :\ so yes this is from that
but now to the point
to me what made stuff like dynamis epic in 11 is because it was against multiple enemys when the entire engine was mainly revolved about 1 enemy vs a party at a time and end game was completly different to the game. it added a diff strategy that was no where else in the game (yes mainly sleeping and kiting but that was something :| it ment u had to have blms and rdms wasted on sleeping) also the meele resistant ppl.
so to the main point
in 14 all i see end game and dungeons being is thiers a huge group of monsters tank runs in every1 goes in aoes the shit out of them they all die o hey thiers another group tank runs in every1 goes in aoes the shit out of them they all die o he.... so on
do ppl find this fun? is this rly what might come out of ff14?

I enjoy the AoEs. the first mmo I played wasn't ffxi, it was SWG, and fighting multiple enemies at once was the norm in that game, whether you were on a planet, or fighting in space, you never fought a lone bandit, rebel or stormtrooper. Even in the older games in the FF series, you rarely fought a single enemy at a time. Therefore with all the complaints about how 14 "doesn't feel" like a FF game, I would think part of making it feel like one would be to add enemy parties, and the choice to use single-target or AoE skills.

Besides, Dynamis was hardly epic, as you always had a sleeper to knock out all the adds, for fear that they would wipe the entire alliance. An epic battle would be to fight them all in a grand melee, with less than a full alliance, and come out of the fight victorious.

[Rowyne]

Wait are we talking about WoW or FFXIV?

LOL, exactly what I was thinking

Wrath of the Lich King = AoE everything
Cataclysm = Crowd Control everything

I thought I stumbled onto the WoW forums for a moment.

This is a classic AoE vs CC content type argument.

[danny52844]

dynamis was people aoeing shit down, you just were the wrong class, i rem mages timed nuke sleep aoeing dynamis to the ground.
your vision is just limited, you only see what was before, aoe isnt that simple for most classes, and positioning of the adds you aoe is important. it can be even more epic.

lol i remeber 1 spot i bastok where u time nuke the stats thats it would be hard to mp control and nuke an entire dynamis zone down and even if they did it its nothing compared to the stupidity that ff14 would be

[TheRac25]

Everytime I hear someone refer to dungeons as "raids" and "raid content" I just want to flip a table. This isn't WoW, or a WoW clone, they were clear on that.

BTW attach a memory veiwer to XI, the term raid is used in reference to "alliances"
wow didnt invent "raid" so i wont even bother reading your post since its obvious what you know about mmos comes from one game xi, besides it was probly you getting a boner over xi and wishing the same thing to be in xiv like every other post on this moron infested forum.

[Physic]

lol i remeber 1 spot i bastok where u time nuke the stats thats it would be hard to mp control and nuke an entire dynamis zone down and even if they did it its nothing compared to the stupidity that ff14 would be

mage nuke was one of the primary means of beating dynamis easily, until with merits and gear and months of melee DD patches it actually became worthwhile to melee the non stone mobs.

point is aoe has always been a part of ffxi, you just didnt notice it because if you werent a mage your AOE was trash, and it required you to beat on a monster for 50 seconds before you could even use it.

AOE techniques can only rule the game if the battle is built for it, and some charachers excel at aoe whereas others do not. they need to keep this in mind when they balance game content.

[jwang]

An epic battle would be to fight them all in a grand melee, with less than a full alliance, and come out of the fight victorious.

This. This so much. When I first heard of Dynamis, I was thinking elite army vs. horde of adventurers. Instead, we got this snoozefest. Seriously, Dynamis was not epic. It was challenging yes, but not epic. Ganging up on a single person while his buddies are sleeping is not epic. Beating up a person while your buddies are holding off his buddies is. Best fight in FFXI that illustrates this point? Moblin fight. Definitely one of the most exciting fights, right after Airship.