Fall back and regroup: time for crafting autoleveller?

[Mortikhan]

1) Then don't even bother, because that's worthless.
2) This is perfectly fine, +1 grind results are worthless spam and probably shouldn't even exist.
3) Then don't even bother, beause that's worthless.
4) This is perfectly fine, best sp per hour doesn't use abilities, they just use the enter button.
5) Pretty needless. Crafting grind is crafting grind. Regardless of type, you can skill up on whatever you want.
6) Again, you can skill up on whatever you want. Crafting grind is grind is grind.
7) Worthless hoop-jumping, stop wasting players' time.
8) Again, worthless.

Basically what you just said is no.
Because what you just proposed would be pretty much a waste of time. Don't waste the devs' and the players' time like that. That system would be impotent and useless.

You want rewarded for mindlessly hitting an enter button in person because for some reason that's entertainment worth rewarding to you.

No. That's terrible gameplay and a poor activity to reward. If anything, crafters should be punished for spamming the enter button for 4 straight hours like gatherers are.

Ya. How about that. Everyone knows crafters who have been at it for hours are watching television or getting other entertainment. They're not playing the game. They're hitting a button while doing something else.

If you're going to reward mindlessness, you might as well reward the most mindless in the group--those who can hit the enter button without Netflix on. Really when you're going to argue that mindlessness is worth rewarding, there's no limit to what dumb things you can reward.

Let's not do the enter button at all. If you really want to reward crafters crafting, make a little dot on the screen appear every 30 seconds to minute and a half. When the dot flashes, you hit enter and craft an item.

Happy? Now you can't do anything else but stare at the screen and react to a randomly appearing dot. How awesome is THAT! Watch that screen now. Can't make it easy. Can't hand anything to people. Gotta make this stupid for everyone because some people like stupid.

Hate to break it to you, the whole game and just about every MMO is a mindless set of button mashing. If we are going to auto-calculate results to save time then may as well not redo the battle system either, just make it auto complete. Repetition is how classes are trained, deal with it. Skipping the process is easy mode. Fighting mobs is no different. A player is going to define what they find interesting. The bottom line is you want to skip something based on the fact that you want the reward but don't want to have to do the work for it because you find it tedious or boring. So do I, but that is the point. Crafting is supposed to test your patience. You not having that patience is your problem.

[Tiraelina]

You really don't know what mindless button mashing is if you think you can play any game doing that and get anywhere. XIV is the only game out there that fully supports mindless mashing of the enter key from 0-50 during the entire process and then reaping the rewards without any actual crafting. Battle and even Gathering on secondary nodes is more interactive than this mess.

There is absolutely nothing at all that you are learning from spam crafting the cheapest rank appropriate synth you have, that's like claiming you are learning how to play in a group having never done so. The amount work needed to put into ranking DoH is equal to zero, all of that lies on who gets the materials that are getting hideously undercut.

Crafting being a test of paitence is only your opinion. The fact of what it is right now is what you do when you have other things to do at the same time that are outside of the game. If not well welcome to being an extremely inefficient time waster. You don't start gathering and tab out spamming enter. You don't start a battle and tab out spamming enter.

Take your slippery slope BS elsewhere.

[Aenarion]

Poor reward systems create poor communities.
Should never have pretended the time it takes to spam the enter button 200,000 times is worth rewarding.
That's the problem.
It's not. It never was. It never will be.
That's cheap, skilless labor destined to be replaced by an automated process in any society save for a group of skilless tallentless drones.

because FF14 is supposed to be RL.

Honestly the whole crafting system makes videogamers look bad. Should be ashamed that this garbage is what some of you consider, "Not handing things to people."

It's disgusting how many times you can get a human to hit the enter button and still feel good about their "accomplishment" and "earning" something by it. What a sick psychological experiment.

ashamed? disgusting? drama much?

End their, and this, misery. Autolevel. This nonsense is below human standards, I don't care how skilless a person is. They have basic human rights and dignity.

Nope, spoke too soon I guess. You sir, needs to come back to reality if you were remotely serious about what you just wrote.

You hate crafting in 14, we get it, it's your opinion and you're certainly welcome to it, just stop trying to imply it's on the same level of RL slavery. Being a drama-queen only makes you into a troll, and not even a good one.


...or are you? hmm....

[Physic]

if thier real goal is to make players play the market, and making skilling up an activity that you dont have to grind endlessly,

1.then they should make the auto leveling aspect one that makes no real sellable goods.
a. the point of this auto leveler shouldnt be to produce a mass of useless items, but to get SP and level without insane grind, part of the reason we have so many of some item is they are the chosen crafters choice.
b. It should have the option of returning a small portion of your investment, or even a small bonus (lets say the game gives you huge manufacturing orders, which you have fulfill, then pays you a certain amount of gil on success, or refunds a percent of the items)


2.They should make it something you invest into and control via management.

a Real mini system. Think of a manufacturing mini game, how well you manage/decide or whatever should decide the rate of SP growth or the effeciency, or your return. Basically not a minigame of a single craft like we have no, but a mini game of simulation, with a small luck element. You decide the items, based on your stats, a small random element, and some of your skills EQed, how long you choose for the process, or what level quality you go for you get somewhat different results for the manufacturing process. say you do it for 15 minutes at a time, based on your early selections, and luck/books equipped, speed chosen you may get anywhere from 4k sp and a 80% return on items/reward to 8k and a 30 percent return on items/reward. The max SP per hour would in this case be around 32k sp. but it would be rare, and give less returns.

2. real crafting (not autolevel/manufacturing) should become very rewarding sp for high quality/hard synths, and virtually no sp gain for easy synths.
You do easy synths to make money, you can do to choose difficult synths to make money and get SP but the risk of money loss is high, the risk to sp gain for a synth is minimal, the way to do this is give high value to high quality in a synth, and even more value to a +1 + 2 or +3 result, even a fail with a high quality and decent progress should give you more sp than a easy synth.

3. you should be able to choose to buy the materials for the manufacturing directly at an npc price, or provide your own.

this makes the system not a complete hostage to gathering, or buying mats, and producing nothing, but in the cases when the demand is high for an item for real crafts, this manufacturer wont set the upper limit, this also allows crafters to look for deals or provide thier own materials to save money, but still leaves an option not be involved. It also gives some base value to gathering items, so they are rarely worth only npcing. The person who invests time in the market and sees the trends basically can craft cheaper, and is more aware of the market for items in general.


Basically the point of these changes, to make grinding for the sake of grinding not lead to over production, to make you choose to skill up, or to profit and encourage skilled crafters SP wise when they actually choose to play at the keys. This will destroy botting, make the system reward complex synths, and paying attention, as well as training people as to what high end crafting is a bout, (HQing) at the same time allowing for a, i just want to get there method of crafting, where you can get rewards for setting up well, picking the right item to craft, and the results being somewhat effected by your managemnt skills and your goal with crafting.


Of course while i think my suggestions are good, i may have missed something, and i dont think they will do this because it seems like it will take a lot of time to implement. But overall i think something like this could solve a lot of problems, while still allowing for an interesting mechanic.

The biggest problem i can think of, is will people actually craft for money only? the current system makes people produce items even if they just want to level. In my system people will mostly want to produce for profit. will enough items be made? i wonder.

perhaps the items manufactured should be available from npcs, at a decent cost, so that say the server crafters manufactured 10000 nakki leather cesti, there is basically an npc that will sell 10000 nakki cesti till it runs out, at a high cost, so even if people dont sell it in the wards, you can still obtain it at an npc like price because the server made it.

[Aenarion]

You don't start gathering and tab out spamming enter. You don't start a battle and tab out spamming enter.

That's right, and I do agree that the crafting system needs to be looked at, but peregrine's idea of turning the entire thing into an insta-bake oven purely out of spite is hardly the way to do it.

[Physic]

That's right, and I do agree that the crafting system needs to be looked at, but peregrine's idea of turning the entire thing into an insta-bake oven purely out of spite is hardly the way to do it.

they (SE official response) want it to be easier, i hope by easier they mean less sitting at the keys spamming enter, and not more spamming enter. A manufacturing system that doesnt produce direct items might be answer to having both the artisan crafter and the crafter who just wants to manage crafts and turn profits.

[Mortikhan]

You really don't know what mindless button mashing is if you think you can play any game doing that and get anywhere. XIV is the only game out there that fully supports mindless mashing of the enter key from 0-50 during the entire process and then reaping the rewards without any actual crafting. Battle and even Gathering on secondary nodes is more interactive than this mess.

There is absolutely nothing at all that you are learning from spam crafting the cheapest rank appropriate synth you have, that's like claiming you are learning how to play in a group having never done so. The amount work needed to put into ranking DoH is equal to zero, all of that lies on who gets the materials that are getting hideously undercut.

Crafting being a test of paitence is only your opinion. The fact of what it is right now is what you do when you have other things to do at the same time that are outside of the game. If not well welcome to being an extremely inefficient time waster. You don't start gathering and tab out spamming enter. You don't start a battle and tab out spamming enter.

Take your slippery slope BS elsewhere.

Well then show me a crafting system that is not the same. FFXI was the same. WoW the same. It is all a series of key strokes that can be botted or mindlessly repeated. People find ways to circumvent what they are supposed to do in every MMO. I have yet to see a "bot proof" or "RMT proof" game. Just because one person does it does not mean that everyone does it. If you want it changed so Enter can't be spammed ok I am down with that (I thought we had that with the original system) but auto leveling it would be no different. Make it a more complicated sequence if you want. It really does not matter to me because I don't spam out the Enter key anyway. If I was doing that I would have wasted my time picking up guildmark abilities.

If your definition of "interactive" is based on movement...well that's just sad. Beyond movement there is nothing more to the battle system (and they are going to make that easier). Hell, I don't even need to press that many keys anymore...just macro it up and go to town. Although I give searching for nodes for gathering a higher grade since that at least requires a little "Marco/Polo" game to get that done but once you start on a point it is no different unless you are trying to find something specific and I completely exclude fishing from this compliment. Those people spamming Enter are not very interactive I agree but you are given a menu with choices. Their choice not to use it is their loss. Sometimes I have to wait out a Lightning or Ice element to see if it will become stable or select an ability that would suit a situation best. There is an art to it and most spammers and botters will not pick that up.

As far as my "slippery slope BS" as you put it. LOL LMAO ROFLMAO. I am not here to teach you life lessons. Your life is not that important to me. People keep asking for things to make tasks easier in this game. Then they get pissed off when someone finds a way to exploit it. WE WANT A SEARCH FUNCTION FOR THE MARKET WARDS. The reason why all the crap on the wards are getting undercut because now people can see all the prices. WE WANT AUTO ATTACK. Now everyone can look like a bot while farming/SPing mobs. Woot I can't wait. WE WANT THE CRAFTING SYSTEM TO BE MORE SMOOTH SO GIVE US A RECIPE SYSTEM FOR REPEAT SYNTHS AND A WAY TO AUTO REPEAT LEVE SYNTHS. You betcha fight fans ^.^b. Now here we are talking about fixes for a system people ASKED for. I will be more than happy to stop talking about "slippery slopes" when people (including SE) start thinking some of this crap through before they implement it.

[Tiraelina]

I really don't care about your "life lessons", bad arguments utilizing slippery slopes among the rest of the logical fallacies belong on the WoW forums and 4chan.

There never will be a bot/RMT proof game, it's asinine to think otherwise, the only way to deal with them is actively policing them with GM's. Passive things like not responding to /tell's or systems like Warden are easily bypassed by any bot worth a damn. Every gameplay element changed to influence the effectiveness of botting just makes them effortlessly switch targets and hits the legit player by several magnitudes worse. Setting them out in the open trying to bot gathering is effectively painting a target on the back of their heads.

My definition of interactive is requiring you to be looking at the screen to not botch everything instead of a netflix window/2nd monitor/tv without being a stupidly tedious system. Grinding isn't crafting, it's grinding and anything you do to make it take longer like trying to use a difficult synth is a net loss. 90% of whats grinded on is also destined to be vendored because the market is already flooded with them.

The issue I have with crafting in this game. It's not about making the gear to rank up, it's spamming something basic and having this moment of clarivoyance where that somehow taught you how to make something completely unrelated to what you were doing. I think it was a mistake making recipes only hidden by obscurity of information given the amount of datamining and database websites floating around for ages now, it is simply a bad idea and killed off that entire part of the market.

The only thing stopping someone from making anything at this point is material availability and rank. I would much rather you need to get a certain rank or level to be able to learn that new recipe that is either a drop or bought with guild marks/seperate faction points from locals. Give DoH some actual variety.

Physic: Being capable of buying anything you want from NPC's to undermines a player driven economy and forcing price limits on items. It either ends up being too cheap and you just alienate DoL's of any time spent actualy gathering or it's too expensive to even bother with for most players. I know right now there isn't much of a market to bother with when it comes to gathering.

Things like the Toadskin Cesti are one of the bigger problems with the crafting system they need to get on fixing. What purpose does needing to kill L65-69 mobs to make an R29 weapon serve?

[Physic]

I really don't care about your "life lessons", bad arguments utilizing slippery slopes among the rest of the logical fallacies belong on the WoW forums and 4chan.

There never will be a bot/RMT proof game, it's asinine to think otherwise, the only way to deal with them is actively policing them with GM's. Passive things like not responding to /tell's or systems like Warden are easily bypassed by any bot worth a damn. Every gameplay element changed to influence the effectiveness of botting just makes them effortlessly switch targets and hits the legit player by several magnitudes worse. Setting them out in the open trying to bot gathering is effectively painting a target on the back of their heads.

My definition of interactive is requiring you to be looking at the screen to not botch everything instead of a netflix window/2nd monitor/tv without being a stupidly tedious system. Grinding isn't crafting, it's grinding and anything you do to make it take longer like trying to use a difficult synth is a net loss. 90% of whats grinded on is also destined to be vendored because the market is already flooded with them.

The issue I have with crafting in this game. It's not about making the gear to rank up, it's spamming something basic and having this moment of clarivoyance where that somehow taught you how to make something completely unrelated to what you were doing. I think it was a mistake making recipes only hidden by obscurity of information given the amount of datamining and database websites floating around for ages now, it is simply a bad idea and killed off that entire part of the market.

The only thing stopping someone from making anything at this point is material availability and rank. I would much rather you need to get a certain rank or level to be able to learn that new recipe that is either a drop or bought with guild marks/seperate faction points from locals. Give DoH some actual variety.

Physic: Being capable of buying anything you want from NPC's to undermines a player driven economy and forcing price limits on items. It either ends up being too cheap and you just alienate DoL's of any time spent actualy gathering or it's too expensive to even bother with for most players. I know right now there isn't much of a market to bother with when it comes to gathering.

Things like the Toadskin Cesti are one of the bigger problems with the crafting system they need to get on fixing. What purpose does needing to kill L65-69 mobs to make an R29 weapon serve?

what im saying is you can buy things from npcs that people produced in the manufacturing system. I only suggest this to solve the possible problem of people not producing enough goods with money as their only reward. right now many items are produced by accident, in creating HQs or for the shear purpose of fast leveling. this drives items values to below their worth, but if you didnt get sp, would people produce enough?

basically people would buy from an expensive npc when their is no other option, we did it at the start of the game, simply because it was better than nothing, it still happens today, their are items on sale in the wards that cost less from an npc, especially the lower level items.

the DoL gain more value from the system, because it sets an actual value to their items, without necessarily creating a surplus of products. If i can buy iron ore for 6k from an npc, it says iron ore is worth at least 6k, in my system if by processing iron ore, i can make back 1/3rd its price, and level a craft at the same time, why wouldnt you do it? it sets a minimum price of 2k for iron ore if im willing to take the time to process it.

[Mortikhan]

The only thing stopping someone from making anything at this point is material availability and rank. I would much rather you need to get a certain rank or level to be able to learn that new recipe that is either a drop or bought with guild marks/seperate faction points from locals. Give DoH some actual variety.

I like this idea. I would rather see something like a series of mats for the guildmark cost though (ie. learning how to make a weapon would also teach you how to make the component parts.). I would take it a step further and make item recipes that were simple recipes that require multiples of the same type of base material that is not an actual component (Ie. 5 Iron Nuggets or 3 Brass Nuggets etc.) be the recipes that popped for leve rewards.