Sex between the Races Lore?

[Cereza]

Still not at ShB yet, but I’ve been poking a bit on the lore for the Gwiber mounts out of curiosity and the description on the Fey Gwiber described them as an attempt to “recreate the fantastical beast known as a dragon”, which is making the possibility that we’ve had dragons poking around the First more plausible. Obviously, it’s possible races just came up with dragons independently just like how many wildly different irl cultures independently came up with their own overlapping concepts of dragons. But given how much the Gwibers all look actual dragons, including the fae gwiber whose origins are from a Ronkan sorcerer, it seems like they based in reality.

Which means Auri being possibly descended from dragons still perfectly on the table. Time flows differently in each Shard, and for all we know, the Drahn came into being because some member of the First Brood could have messed around there at some point. We still have two members (Azdaja and Vrtra) unaccounted for, after all.

I can't remember how it was brought up, but it was suggested that Au Ra came about due to Allagan meddling with and making chimeras (possibly with dragons?). I'll have to find where this was talked about it was super interesting.

[MikkoAkure]

Still not at ShB yet, but I’ve been poking a bit on the lore for the Gwiber mounts out of curiosity and the description on the Fey Gwiber described them as an attempt to “recreate the fantastical beast known as a dragon”, which is making the possibility that we’ve had dragons poking around the First more plausible. Obviously, it’s possible races just came up with dragons independently just like how many wildly different irl cultures independently came up with their own overlapping concepts of dragons. But given how much the Gwibers all look actual dragons, including the fae gwiber whose origins are from a Ronkan sorcerer, it seems like they based in reality.

Which means Auri being possibly descended from dragons still perfectly on the table. Time flows differently in each Shard, and for all we know, the Drahn came into being because some member of the First Brood could have messed around there at some point. We still have two members (Azdaja and Vrtra) unaccounted for, after all.

The writers have put into place to say that au ra are not related to dragons. They've already mentioned the horns being used for different things and au ra having exaggerated sexual dimorphism where instead dragons have a purely aesthetic gender and are capable of reproducing asexually (and also hatch from eggs). Also I don't remember the fae gwiber being associated with the Ronkan sorcerer. Amaro were created by a Ronkan sorcerer, but those are a different thing entirely.

I can't remember how it was brought up, but it was suggested that Au Ra came about due to Allagan meddling with and making chimeras (possibly with dragons?). I'll have to find where this was talked about it was super interesting.

I don't remember this being suggested anywhere, but this would not be possible on the First. To our knowledge the Allagans had no access to it.

It's more likely that au ra are their own thing that popped into existence the same way as the other races rather than have a convoluted origin story. The mental gymnastics needed to rectify a draconic or Allagan origin that also works in other realities where neither exist doesn't justify that story.

[Vyrerus]

To be fair, the devs take an almost transcendentalist approach to the game's lore and writing. If some small details from the past are bothersome, then they are ignored or discarded. I wouldn't go as far to say that we can all cling to whatever speculation we want, because some of it is clearly a bridge too far, but until there's something concrete laid out in the game, then a lot of avenues remain open.

I loved theorizing about Au Ra origins, particularly during Stormblood after getting to see Sui-no-Sato, Shisui of the Violet Tides, and Azim Steppe. My head churned up with thoughts of them being Allagan experimentation on super soldiers, in a similar vein to the Ixali, leaving them to their own devices after Azys Lla/Dalamud were torn out of what's now The Burn. After Shadowbringers had The Drahn on The First though... it takes a lot of reworking. How, what, why? etc.

Now my sort of working idea is that they're a machination of the Ascians to create a people who can excel at living in The Void(working through empires born for planetwide manipulation Allagans/Ronkans). Horns rather than ears for better vibration detection. Eyes with prominent limbal rings and therefore more Limbal Stem Cells to keep the eyes healthy and working, even in low light conditions with dense atmosphere. Their eyes used to make me think they might be alien, even.

It gets even more crazy when you start to try to piece in the Hotogo tribe in relation to all possible timelines from the Alexander series raids. Alexander eventually goes back in time and releases Mide and Dayan(or perhaps their offspring) to start the Hotogo tribe, so that they can be reborn many centuries later to enact the time loop that results in the raid series. Since Alexander can move across time and space, and we know from Twinning that this is ultimately how they rebuilt a bootleg version of Alexander, with some Omega tech filling in the gaps, to move the entire Crystal Tower back in time and across the rift, it may be that Mide and Dayan did something similar with the real Alexander to seed the other shards/all possible timelines with Au Ra(granted they are only Xaela, and there are clearly Raen on The First). It's fun to make stuff up. No need to avoid anything convoluted. A lot of story elements in this game are convoluted.

[kujoestars]

The writers have put into place to say that au ra are not related to dragons. They've already mentioned the horns being used for different things and au ra having exaggerated sexual dimorphism where instead dragons have a purely aesthetic gender and are capable of reproducing asexually (and also hatch from eggs). Also I don't remember the fae gwiber being associated with the Ronkan sorcerer. Amaro were created by a Ronkan sorcerer, but those are a different thing entirely.

I think you actually mean “the writers have put in place to say that Au Ra are a darn enigma and nobody knows wtf they are”.

There is literally nothing confirming one way or another, and all irl asexually reproducing species are capable of sexual reproduction because generally sexual reproduction is better for maintaining genetic diversity as opposed to a bunch of genetic clones. But then, logically speaking, Middy’s kids should all be clones of him but they aren’t, nor are any of their children (though clones of each other, maybe). They even take mates and likely have their unique offspring from here.

As for the Fae Gwiber description: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/F...TfIe4xhOlc0RND

While I definitely accidentally conflated it with the Amaro description, my point still stands some sorcerer tried to recreate a dragon with it. Could just be a standard legend of a winged reptile, could be a dragon actually popped up in the First at some point.

And besides, even if the Au Ra have distinctly non-draconic traits like the size differences and the horns as ears, considering how insanely diverse dragons are (heck, some breeds look like dinosaurs and Tarasque is literally a big turtle that is apparently a high-ranking dragon; and this is to say nothing if the various dragon-like scalekin that are NOT dragons), I don’t think it’s out of the question for an entire lineage to develop those features somehow over time (and especially if they are able to crossbreed with man).

In quick response to other replies, the while Allagan chimera theory, while pretty cool, is kinda shot down by the Wind-Up Odin minion’s description where Odin’s sword apparently came from an Auri warrior, so Auri already existed way before the Allagan Empire was a thing.

Voidsent, while an interesting headcanon, is even less connected than dragons because it’s never stated or hinted at anywhere in game. Only old concept art had “demonic race” for some sheets and the one concept that actually ended up being the final product was titled “Dragon_Race”.

[Vyrerus]

I think you actually mean “the writers have put in place to say that Au Ra are a darn enigma and nobody knows wtf they are”.

There is literally nothing confirming one way or another, and all irl asexually reproducing species are capable of sexual reproduction because generally sexual reproduction is better for maintaining genetic diversity as opposed to a bunch of genetic clones. But then, logically speaking, Middy’s kids should all be clones of him but they aren’t, nor are any of their children (though clones of each other, maybe). They even take mates and likely have their unique offspring from here.

As for the Fae Gwiber description: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/F...TfIe4xhOlc0RND

While I definitely accidentally conflated it with the Amaro description, my point still stands some sorcerer tried to recreate a dragon with it. Could just be a standard legend of a winged reptile, could be a dragon actually popped up in the First at some point.

And besides, even if the Au Ra have distinctly non-draconic traits like the size differences and the horns as ears, considering how insanely diverse dragons are (heck, some breeds look like dinosaurs and Tarasque is literally a big turtle that is apparently a high-ranking dragon; and this is to say nothing if the various dragon-like scalekin that are NOT dragons), I don’t think it’s out of the question for an entire lineage to develop those features somehow over time (and especially if they are able to crossbreed with man).

In quick response to other replies, the while Allagan chimera theory, while pretty cool, is kinda shot down by the Wind-Up Odin minion’s description where Odin’s sword apparently came from an Auri warrior, so Auri already existed way before the Allagan Empire was a thing.

Voidsent, while an interesting headcanon, is even less connected than dragons because it’s never stated or hinted at anywhere in game. Only old concept art had “demonic race” for some sheets and the one concept that actually ended up being the final product was titled “Dragon_Race”.

Unfortunately that item description only states, "A popular >>>theory<<< is that Odin acquired the blade upon slaying an Auri warrior who was the first ever to notch his theretofore unsullied plate."

So not even that is concrete. :3 The speculation continues!

[TheMightyMollusk]

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

[LineageRazor]

Unfortunately that item description only states, "A popular >>>theory<<< is that Odin acquired the blade upon slaying an Auri warrior who was the first ever to notch his theretofore unsullied plate."

In fact, we know this theory to not be true - at least, not exactly. Odin would not have acquired the blade - he would have been acquired BY the blade. Zantetsuken is the true primal, as we discovered in the Odin trial quests. We also later learned that Zantetsuken was one of the weapons created in Baldesion Arsenal. It's been a while since I ran through the Baldesion Arsenal quests, but I believe that it was stated that the Arsenal was created by the Allagans. So, in order of appearance: Allagans -> Arsenal -> Zantetsuken. This means that the Auri warrior in the legend probably does not predate the Allagan Empire.

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

Ah, but we HAVE had real dragons! Dinosaurs!

I'm being flippant, but it's likely the case that the widespread dragon legends likely have do with the fact that dinosaur bones can be found pretty much all over the world.

In regards to kujoestars's remark that all irl creatures that reproduce asexually also reproduce sexually, consider that FFXIV dragons are VERY unlike irl creatures. Irl creatures need sexual reproduciton in order to mutate and evolve over generations - but FFXIV dragons mutate and evolve within their own (considerably long) individual lifespans. This could well negate the evolutionary advantage that sexual reproduction brings to the table.

It's worth noting, though, that in spite of this, dragons for some reason choose to be gendered, and choose to pair off into mated pairs (such as Tiamat and Bahamut). Whether these mated pairs actually do reproduce sexually, or only do it for companionship is unknown.

[kujoestars]

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

Unfortunately that item description only states, "A popular >>>theory<<< is that Odin acquired the blade upon slaying an Auri warrior who was the first ever to notch his theretofore unsullied plate."

So not even that is concrete. :3 The speculation continues!

Evidently though, Odyn’s been that far so there’s credence to Auri already existing before the Allagan Empire did. XD

Even if they were Allagan creations though, I would think dragons crossed with Hyur to be more likely because their appearance is more obviously like dragons. No one ever calls them demons, and no Voidsent have scales like theirs. The tails, however, do look a lot like some tails used on various dragons (the spaded tail definitely looks like a thinner version of Mount Form Midgardsormer’s, I noticed whenever I’m riding him). Also worth noting after checking so photos on all confirmed voidsent that none of them have tails like Au Ra (the ones with spaded tails have them completely smooth while more lizard-like tails all look segmented rather than scaled). Some horn textures are similar, but the same applies to dragons and many creatures with horns. The only one I can distinctly see scales on is Muud Suud, and even then, the type and arrangement isn’t quite the same (though they are notably created from summoning voidsent into the corpses of fallen Highlander and Hellsguard). Dahrak do interestingly have their horns positioned similarly to Au Ra though, but they are notably also possessed and then horribly mutated dragon corpses.

While these all make for interesting speculation, I feel like the emphasis on Auri looking at least outwardly draconic and nothing about looking demonic makes Voidsent a LOT less likely.

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

I did say this is Final Fantasy, didn’t I? >;P

I also mentioned it could be they just came up with it the same way individual cultures irl did as well, but because dragons exist in FFXIV and the powerful ones could travel between worlds (and thus possibly world hop), that leaves the possibility of some member of the First Brood at least showing up and providing inspiration.

[kujoestars]

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

In fact, we know this theory to not be true - at least, not exactly. Odin would not have acquired the blade - he would have been acquired BY the blade. Zantetsuken is the true primal, as we discovered in the Odin trial quests. We also later learned that Zantetsuken was one of the weapons created in Baldesion Arsenal. It's been a while since I ran through the Baldesion Arsenal quests, but I believe that it was stated that the Arsenal was created by the Allagans. So, in order of appearance: Allagans -> Arsenal -> Zantetsuken. This means that the Auri warrior in the legend probably does not predate the Allagan Empire.

Posted too slow, but FASCINATING!!!! That means the Allagan creation theory IS possible (and the Allagns locked up a LOT of dergs......)

Ah, but we HAVE had real dragons! Dinosaurs!

I'm being flippant, but it's likely the case that the widespread dragon legends likely have do with the fact that dinosaur bones can be found pretty much all over the world.

In regards to kujoestars's remark that all irl creatures that reproduce asexually also reproduce sexually, consider that FFXIV dragons are VERY unlike irl creatures. Irl creatures need sexual reproduciton in order to mutate and evolve over generations - but FFXIV dragons mutate and evolve within their own (considerably long) individual lifespans. This could well negate the evolutionary advantage that sexual reproduction brings to the table.

It's worth noting, though, that in spite of this, dragons for some reason choose to be gendered, and choose to pair off into mated pairs (such as Tiamat and Bahamut). Whether these mated pairs actually do reproduce sexually, or only do it for companionship is unknown.

Hmm, fair point. Although, there is the question on whether or not men-turned-dragons gain their reproductive physiology or not.

[Gula]

I wouldn't take mythical dragons as an indication of real dragons having existed until you can prove that we've had real dragons on Earth at some point.

We got Komodo dragons that's enough.