Latency issue in this game...

[Tercino]

I tried Titan extreme today. I knew it was going to be bad, but wasn't prepared for just how bad it was. Dodging weight on reaction time is very nearly impossible for me. I basically have to pre-emptively move, which means that I have to know when every single weight is coming, and also means that if I screw up my timing even slightly the rest of the team'll eat my weight, since it's further out than normal.

I noticed while I was doing Titan HM that not only does it lag while I'm leaving the AoE (which has been fixed a bit by 2.1), it also lags when displaying weight, to the extent that if I'm walking I can be out of the AoE before it even appears on my screen.

I don't know if this is something SE can fix, but I can think of numerous other games that are nowhere near as strongly affected by lag as this. I'd much rather fights were designed more along the lines of Garuda extreme, Ultima, and T4, where AoEs are predictable if you know what you're doing without memorising a ridiculous amount of information, and the difficulty comes more from actually playing your role well, instead of dodging one lolOHKO AoE after another.

[Sunarie]

snip

There are other things aside from just ping that factor into whether or not you're going to get hit by an AOE. People that used trace routes in previous threads on the topic found that while their ping was okay, packet loss was happening. So it's reasonable to assume that packet loss also causes the issue. You also seem to be operating under the assumption that the only people getting the problem are outside of the US, when that is far from the case. There are some cable providers that have problems with latency during peak hours (like Time Warner cable), which a player does not have control over. There is also server load to consider (this issue happens considerably more when the servers are more stressed by an increase in players).

This is not to say that things are not dodgeable. They are. However there should never be an instance where you get hit by an AOE you were out of. Not a single one. If you truly get over 200 ping, I invite you to actively try and get hit while still being out of an AOE. Test it, shift out at the last little bit of the cast bar and see if you still take damage. Again, not arguing that you can't dodge, just that you should never have an instance, regardless of how late the person dodged, where they were hit when they were out. This doesn't happen in any other MMOs, it shouldn't happen here. People with an "acceptable" ping shouldn't have to subscribe to a tunneling service because packet loss on their normal connection is causing them to be hit.

Also worth noting that Yoshi doesn't seem to think 300ms is a good ping. Especially given his statement that if he has to program fights so that people with a "3 digit" ping can dodge, it would make the fights too easy.

[Misteyes]

The root of the issue actually is SE's netcode, as someone who's done games network programming (though I'm no expert on the subject - I only did it once and I did it badly).

There are a number of things that you can do to reduce the perceived effect of latency.

One practice (used in the Source engine), is that players perceive, and interact with, a game state that has already occurred. When a player lines up a shot in Counter Strike Source, they're actually shooting at where their target was a few frames ago. The server, however, knows how far behind they are, and where their target was at that time, so if they hit their target's past-self, their target is then informed that it was hit, in the present.

It would be ideal for a PvE game like this one, since only one side would be delayed - the players interact with the "past-selves" of the enemies, but the enemies (since they're automated) don't need to interact with the past-selves of the players.

I am fairly sure that this is how World of Warcraft manages to make PvE content seem lag-free, despite facing most of the same technical issues as this game does. (And why WoW's PvP does not have the same smoothness).

[Allyra]

Sadly a majority of MMOs do that, if you play English servers which are mostly located in NA. The sad fact is if you don't live in NA, it's time to get a tunneling service.

I live in NA. As well, the majority of mmos do not offer a ps3 service which you can't use a VPN for.

[Maplekoya]

snip.

People living in the US will face latency issues due to the fact the servers are not actually located in the US but in Canada rather. As you have mentioned, the player has no control over the quality of the cables their provider has but neither does SE. Tunneling services are an option for those who wish to try.

As far as I know, it does happen in Blade and Soul, Diablo III as well as Tera. You could be well out of the red and still get hit in Blade and Soul and to be honest, it was a pain to play Tera getting hit half the time even thou you blocked. I ended up switching to another ping friendly class. It is not true to say only FF XIV ARR suffers from this problem.

And YoshiP needs a reality check if he truly wants this game to go international. People living in SEA,Oceania,UAE,Russia and many more will face pings of up to 300 or more.

[Sunarie]

As far as I know, it does happen in Blade and Soul, Diablo III as well as Tera. You could be well out of the red and still get hit in Blade and Soul and to be honest, it was a pain to play Tera getting hit half the time even thou you blocked. I ended up switching to another ping friendly class. It is not true to say only FF XIV ARR suffers from this problem.

As much as I have looked, I have not been able to find a single video to demonstrate the issue as I have for FFXIV. Perhaps you could be the first person ever on the forums to actually find me one? I am not talking about general lag that causes you to rubberband, just to be perfectly clear. I'm talking about the completely avoidable (with proper coding) issue of skill effects (like hallowed ground or benediction) applying but still getting killed. Silence going off on Chimera but Ram's Voice still going off while Chimera was under the silence effect, and things like that when no other signs of lag are present in the game.

I played Tera.. as a Lancer, in fact.. and didn't run into this issue. Nor did I see any threads in the forum reporting them. Can't say I played Blade and Soul.. but a google search netted no videos (or threads) about lag beyond what you'd see as an off-case (someone lagging so bad their game is literally freezing up rendering them unable to move).

I'll stop claiming FFXIV is the only MMO to have that happen when I can find an instance of it in any other MMO. Lag can cause a variety of things.. however getting hit by an aoe you were out of is not one of those things.

And I would agree, Yoshi does need a reality check.

[Altena]

I am an Aussie that gets 360ms without a VPN.
With a VPN I get 260ms. (I use pingzapper, and connect to their Chicago servers).

Without the VPN I can't dodge anything.
With it, I dodge everything - unless I genuinely stuff up or hesitate.

With the latest patch, they reduced positional updates down to 100ms (from 300ms) so basically this was one of the underlying issues. Your character positions were updated less frequently then most people even ping to the server - so this is what was causing a lot of people with low ping to have issues dodging. There was a work around to this and that was to perform an action or do something like jump, which would force your client to send a positional update to the server once you step out of the AoE, however now that the positional update frequency has increased by 3, it is much easier to dodge.

Honestly, as an Aussie who pings @260ms, if you can't dodge Titan abilities with ping any less than this - then there is some other unknown factor here. (Whether it be equipment or user error).

I would agree with any of these latency issues if your ping was higher then mine - as that is truly what it comes down to. However if it is lower then mine, I would find it pretty hard to believe that it is the fault of SE, as their game is server driven (unlike many which is client driven), and while I do not entirely agree with their decision to do it this way, this sort of netcode is heavily based around your ping.

As someone who has no issues dodging Titan HM/EX and has high ping, I strongly suggest anyone that is having trouble, look into using a VPN (I recommend Pingzapper as they have a free trial of 60mins per session - so you can connect and use their service for 1hr at a time without paying anything).

If you are on a PS3, then that's just too bad.

Aside from this, once again - I fail to see how it's SE's fault if you are unable to dodge Titan abilities when pinging less then I am - especially in this latest patch.

If you were to talk about design choices (such as client driven is better then server driven, or buffs from non-GCD abilities should be applied BEFORE the animation), then I would completely agree - there are many things that could be done better.
However for a server-driven game that relies on dodge mechanics - there is nothing else I can suggest but to try and get as low a ping as possible.

[Altena]

I'm talking about the completely avoidable (with proper coding) issue of skill effects (like hallowed ground or benediction) applying but still getting killed. Silence going off on Chimera but Ram's Voice still going off while Chimera was under the silence effect, and things like that when no other signs of lag are present in the game.

This is a design choice, that SE have gone over multiple times - and while I don't agree with it, it's here to stay unfortunately.

All skills, both on and off GCD skills, are applied after the animation (or at least a certain point), and are not applied the moment you hit the button.
This is a design choice from SE's perspective.

[Sunarie]

This is a design choice, that SE have gone over multiple times - and while I don't agree with it, it's here to stay unfortunately.

All skills, both on and off GCD skills, are applied after the animation (or at least a certain point), and are not applied the moment you hit the button.
This is a design choice from SE's perspective.

Not really gonna argue with that animations being first is a design choice. The part that I don't agree with, and shouldn't happen.. is when in the battlelog it says Chimera is under the effect of Silence, and then further down, Chimera casts Ram's Voice.. wiping the party.. and then even later that Chimera loses the effect Silence. The same can be said for Hallowed Ground and Benediction.

The crappy thing.. is that the thing causing that delay is also a design choice.. and one that SE isn't likely to fix as it would involve investing a lot of money to re-do the network coding. That's why I suggested using a tunneling service if you're still getting hit after this most recent patch.

[Tigercrane]

This is a design choice, that SE have gone over multiple times - and while I don't agree with it, it's here to stay unfortunately.

All skills, both on and off GCD skills, are applied after the animation (or at least a certain point), and are not applied the moment you hit the button.
This is a design choice from SE's perspective.

And considering some of the really elaborate animations (Dragon Kick Im looking at you), it can be forever until a skill lands because of this. At least truncate some of the animations, SE. It also makes skill speed really useless past a certain point.