The real reason why PVP is imbalanced

[Acaelus]

Just because you want to exploit the system, doesn't mean it's working as intended.

Making a second thread for this? You admitted in your first one you were doing the same thing.

[Tenku]

All I did was point out the problems with your plan. Do you really want to wait an hour for a queue to pop? Either you do in the name of 256bit justice, or you don't. You already said, if it came to that, then just go back to putting pugs in to fill the spots. So imbalance or long queue times, which is it.

And no, as I said, I run mostly solo queue. The only time I ran otherwise is with a BLM friend of mine for like 15 runs. So, yeah, I must be profiting off of the system if I don't see it your way. At least, that's what you're saying.

You really don't read do you? Again.... you stated yourself.. there is a ALREADY a fail-safe system in place to make it so when there are no other 4 man parties queued, your 4 man premade will be put into the other queue that has non 4 man premades. lol. good night.

P.S. Look up the definition of fail-safe.

[Warlyx]

yeah a premade of 3 is better than 4, because if u form a party of 4 u will face premades , if u form a party of 3 u will face pugs.

[Ksenia]

Magic bullets don't exist.

No MMO ever has been able to balance PvP. If they try it becomes homogenized where all classes are identical in effect and boring. Groups end up leading to this anyway because the groups become homogenized. trinity, 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps anyone?

If you are a true PvP player you should know this by now. It's hack and slash, always will be.

[DarkB]

I agree with the OP. Premade should fight vs Premade, simply because premade has a combination of jobs that it is unlikely that gonna happen on a random solo queue. (sometimes it does).
ATM mages and ranged are a bit too strong vs drg/mnk.
blm smn sch war so far is the best combination you can have, very hard to beat if those people are good.

[amnie]

Magic bullets don't exist.

No MMO ever has been able to balance PvP. If they try it becomes homogenized where all classes are identical in effect and boring. Groups end up leading to this anyway because the groups become homogenized. trinity, 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps anyone?

If you are a true PvP player you should know this by now. It's hack and slash, always will be.

so... your reason for not fixing a problem is ... 'the problem has always been around'?

cool. cool.

[BoomerOU]

I agree with the OP as well. Premade only queue and pug only queue gives both premade groups and pug groups the most appropriate matches. I'm fine with 2 and 4 man queues funneling in to the 4 man matches.

[Skotie]

Sounds to me like what you want is battleground type pvp. Joining solo in something that can be joined as a group is like you trying to DF titan HM, yeah you could win but your odds aren't good so why don't you join a party of 3 friends so you know your going to work well together. If they had say 24 vs. 24 battleground style pvp you wouldn't really need to worry so much about premades in pvp if you just trying to have fun.

[Tenku]

If they had say 24 vs. 24 battleground style pvp you wouldn't really need to worry so much about premades in pvp if you just trying to have fun.

That's not true 24 vs 24 is the worst because the premades team tends to be put together while the other team is full of all pugs. If you don't believe this, go play TERA. Also, they have the system in place for duty finder for solo and duty finder for premade. Why not enhance it and make it so the first option can only be joined solo? You do know that those two level 50 Wolf Den instances from the duty finder are separate from each other right? The only times a premade of 4 is put against a pug is when there is no other premade of 4. (SE's fail-safe system to make sure the queue times are optimal)

[Jyoeru]

I agree with the OP as well. Premade only queue and pug only queue gives both premade groups and pug groups the most appropriate matches. I'm fine with 2 and 4 man queues funneling in to the 4 man matches.

Sigh. If you have 2man premade, they are stuck waiting for the exact complement they need to run. IE 2 DD need to wait for a Tank/Healer combo. Odds are low you'll find that, so your queue times skyrocket. If there is a timer that puts you into the normal queue after X minutes, then you're still stuck waiting for a queue longer, and ultimately end up in the solo queue anyway, so nothing was solved.

I don't even see the point in this discussion. Square isn't going to implement this, and if they do, they will break PVP for a lot of people, so probably not going to happen. PVP isn't really imbalanced. You have 2 mins to figure out your strategy, and there's only so much you need to know.

That's not true 24 vs 24 is the worst because the premades team tends to be put together while the other team is full of all pugs. If you don't believe this, go play TERA. Also, they have the system in place for duty finder for solo and duty finder for premade. Why not enhance it and make it so the first option can only be joined solo? You do know that those two level 50 Wolf Den instances from the duty finder are separate from each other right? The only times a premade of 4 is put against a pug is when there is no other premade of 4. (SE's fail-safe system to make sure the queue times are optimal)

You don't have any data to back up your claims. Your logic still lacks. Queue times will ALWAYS be longer for premades forced into a premade queue because most people don't make premades, and most premades will look for a way to get into the instance faster (and, as you claim, with an advantage). So, put premades into their own queue, and the fail-safe still sticks them in the solo queue to "keep queue times optimal" as you said. You've solved nothing.

Until you have the data from all the pvp comps, runs, premades vs. non, queue times, and win/loss comparisons, your argument is 99% speculative. Your solution is 99% impractical.

Don't believe me, then try to do premades in WOW. I've done PVP enough in a much larger game to know that (a) your problem isn't really a problem, and (b) there isn't a feasible solution for the components of the argument that are problematic. The only real issue that will come up is level 50 players sporting full level 50 PVP gear, and coming into the lower level runs against players who can't even get PVP gear. That is what ruins PVP, just like it did in WOW when they introduced arena gear. Arena-garbed players would storm into regular PVP and there was no stopping them.

You really don't read do you? Again.... you stated yourself.. there is a ALREADY a fail-safe system in place to make it so when there are no other 4 man parties queued, your 4 man premade will be put into the other queue that has non 4 man premades. lol. good night.

P.S. Look up the definition of fail-safe.

The fail-safe NEGATES your solution. If the queue isn't there for premades, which it won't be most of the time most likely, then they end up in the solo queue to move the queue along. That's the fail-safe. It keeps all players from needlessly waiting an hour for a queue. In your proposal, this is mandatory, and you say it will be fine. I am telling you that it will not be fine because--especially for 2 man premade teams--odds are unfavorable they will find a complement team, so they will end up in the solo queue because of the fail-safe. So, if premades end up in the solo queue 90% of the time (or whatever) because of a lack of probability being able to pair them, then YOU'VE SOLVED NOTHING 90% OF THE TIME. Why waste the money or resources to implement something that won't readily work?

Further, 4m premades aren't ever going to be the norm. You'll end up with a few people doing them, and in the name of the fail-safe, they will still saturate the solo queue. Again, nothing has been solved.

Why do you think they have 2 different level 50 queues for?