Thread: The Ascians in 2.1 (spoilers!)

Although there are definite similarities between tempering and the Echo, the two ideas are also completely distinct. Tempering is a process whereby a Primal completely removes a person's free-will, their very personality. It's referred to in-game as literally having your soul stripped away, leaving a mindless shell. A tempered is thereafter completely a mindless thrall of the Primal that tempered them, zealously devoted to them. A 'woken' (that is, an Echo user) however, retains all their free will, personality and memories.

They are still a normal person, only they have been literally 'awoken' to new powers not normally available to a mortal (such as the ability to enter another's memories and experience them as if they were there themselves, the ability to understand any language regardless of whether they actually spoke it or not etc etc).

Having the Echo also has the side effect of making that person immune to a Primal's influence (read, tempering) - befret of any other explaination, it's likely this is why the Primals believe that an Echo user is 'already claimed by another' - well, in a manner of speaking they are, but not in the way they're thinking of. Echo users could be considered 'Hydaelyn's chosen', but not the same as the tempered are towards the Primals (after all, just because a person has the Echo, how they use that power is completely up to them).

After finally finishing the main scenario on my alt, I realized something that I should have noticed sooner. Since SE seems to be drawing names from the Ivalice Alliance for the Ascians--the Espers' 'Scions of Light' counterpart for their warriors, and Elidibus for Zodiark's emissary--what are the odds that they haven't done the same for their stronghold? It's a shot in the dark (no pun intended), but I will not be surprised if they turn out to be operating from none other than Midlight's Deep.

In Final Fantasy Tactics, it's an optional dungeon with a fight against Elidibus at the very bottom, who we've already covered was the summoner Zodiark in the game. An interesting mechanic about the dungeon is that, upon entering it, the entire map is pitch-black. The only way to light up the dungeon is to allow the enemies you kill to turn to crystals. It's a pretty tenuous connection to be sure, but given that any cutscenes we see of the Ascians is in a damn-near-close to pitch-black room, along with their names and the presence of Zodiark, I think there's a good chance it may just be Midlight's Deep.

I realize that this is FFXIV and Eorzea=/=Ivalice, but referencing the dungeon name sounds like something that they could potentially do.

Was looking back over some stuff today and I'm really curious where the story concerning the Ascians is going to go.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/E...al_Fantasy_XII)

If you scroll down to the Scions of Darkness/Light you'll see that 4 of those names are present in ARR so far.

You'll notice Elidibus's name is not on there, but a character sharing the same name in FFT was in possession of the Serpentarius zodiac stone. (which was renamed to Zodiark in the FFT PSP localization) Ophiuchus, the Snake Bearer is listed as Zodiark's sign. Might it be that Elidibus is a mortal vessel for Zodiark and that Hydaelyn may have an equal in the world?

This is a huge stretch, but Elidibus did mention at the end of the 2.1 cutscenes that "they" are becoming stronger in the "Gift". (Echo) Might it be that Minfilia is Hydaelyn's mortal form but doesn't even realize it?

Originally Posted by Orophin

You'll notice Elidibus's name is not on there, but a character sharing the same name in FFT was in possession of the Serpentarius zodiac stone. (which was renamed to Zodiark in the FFT PSP localization) Ophiuchus, the Snake Bearer is listed as Zodiark's sign. Might it be that Elidibus is a mortal vessel for Zodiark and that Hydaelyn may have an equal in the world?

This is a huge stretch, but Elidibus did mention at the end of the 2.1 cutscenes that "they" are becoming stronger in the "Gift". (Echo) Might it be that Minfilia is Hydaelyn's mortal form but doesn't even realize it?

I think we can rule that out considering the argument between the two Ascians at the end of the 2.1 cut scenes.

Originally Posted by Mysteltain

Is it because we believe them to exist as such that they appear so?

Reading this made me think back on the thread I read before about Primals, and the idea that perhaps their appearance and nature reflects those that summon them. It's kind of eerie, actually, when you think about how similar the Primals and the Ascians might be in nature. Both formless beings existing in the aether, both need crystals to act in the mortal world... and now this appearance connection, although the primal side of it is mostly conjecture at this point.

Perhaps it's possible that the Ascians are something akin to Primals of Zodiark? Considering that, I just remembered a line Thancred says about how his ordeal with Lahabrea made him "more susceptible to the effects of tempering".

There's a connection there between the Ascians and the Primals, and I'd bet gil to gashyl greens it's more substantial than just a thematic connection.