Job information posted elsewhere apparently

[Sephr]

Seems pretty redundant if you wouldn't actually have to level anything else. Especially considering that most players have more than a few classes already past 30. I seriously doubt this is SE's intention, most likely something lost in translation or some random spawn of a BS rumour.

How is it redundant? A paladin will tank better than a gladiator, therefore will be what tanking gladiators use in parties and dungeons. They will still use gladiator for soloing and situations where they need to be flexible.

It's an effort to make each person in a group good for one particular role, not the spammy mass of same-y classes we have right now in party situations.

[Rhomagus]

This is a direct reply to people complaining about having to start over in XI.

There were a lot of people that were miffed that they had to start over entirely when they unlocked say, Dark Knight in XI. The 30 levels they had experienced meant nothing. They then had to re-experience the same content, minus the storyline, all over again.

I'm okay with Classes = Jobs when it comes to level or Rank. People have done their time and the development team has already told us that we should think of Classes as solo specialists and Jobs as team specialists. What I'm a bit worried about is the 1:1 ratio of Class=Job when it comes to unlocking Jobs. As someone stated earlier, CON and THM do not cleanly fall under WHM or BLM or even RDM, not to mention their lore being very different form what we'd expect the traditional Jobs to be associated with.

If they have also completely revamped Classes to represent this 1:1 transfer then the change makes more sense. All in all though, not having to level Jobs separately is a direct response to complaints from XI and is not only consistent with what they've already told us, but also alleviates us from redundancy to an extent.

[Anty]

This is a direct reply to people complaining about having to start over in XI.

There were a lot of people that were miffed that they had to start over entirely when they unlocked say, Dark Knight in XI. The 30 levels they had experienced meant nothing. They then had to re-experience the same content, minus the storyline, all over again.

I'm okay with Classes = Jobs when it comes to level or Rank. People have done their time and the development team has already told us that we should think of Classes as solo specialists and Jobs as team specialists. What I'm a bit worried about is the 1:1 ratio of Class=Job when it comes to unlocking Jobs. As someone stated earlier, CON and THM do not cleanly fall under WHM or BLM or even RDM, not to mention their lore being very different form what we'd expect the traditional Jobs to be associated with.

If they have also completely revamped Classes to represent this 1:1 transfer then the change makes more sense. All in all though, not having to level Jobs separately is a direct response to complaints from XI and is not only consistent with what they've already told us, but also alleviates us from redundancy to an extent.

True, doin everythign all over again isnt a smart but often used approach by many mmos.
Too bad you get almost everything handed over in ffxiv without doin anything but sping...
They could spice it up with more stories and quests involving your character and his development, so you could get a lot of skills only by doin this, so there wouldnt be the need of leveling mindless to cap, instead you would have to do other challenges to improve your abilites or get new ones (the few you get by leves... well... its another boring leve-thing).
Questing for content, or additional character features would be a great thing imho.

[AlexiaKidd]

They're not painting themselves into a corner at all, if you actually think about it. Fencer was a class already in the .dats, fencing degen could be a seperate weapon from swords, RDMs could be a specialisation of fencer. (they could repeat that as much as they wanted if they ran out of ideas, scimitar could be for another class of some variety, etc)

Paladins are the classical sword-shield user, that's why they're a gladiator specialisation. Great swords will get their own class/specialisation eventually for sure, and with the armoury system you'll be able to switch to the class easily when the situation calls for it. When would you need to equip a great sword on paladin, when you could switch weapon on the fly to meet the needs of the situation anyway? This isn't FFXI anymore, switching class isnt' a big deal.

Well if that is what you like and want then great that is your opinion and your entitled to it, mine however is different. I do not like the armoury system and I do not like classes being tied to weapons. I think it was a big mistake from the start and I hope it is something that will be rectified.

The Armoury system from the start caused problems the Job system is going to try and correct those problems. If from the start they would have just made classes actual jobs that learnt skills, traits and abilities and made weapons just learn weapon skills then we wouldn't even be in this mess right now.

I do not like that as a MRD I am tied to a G.Axe forever and can not use any other weapon. When Job's come along if WAR is unlocked from MRD then that will be stuck with a G.Axe forever, I will not be able to use different weapons like single handed axes and still retain my WAR skills.

The argument for being able to switch classes quickly is stupid, there is no reason they couldn't put a Class/Job option in the menu to allow you to switch jobs on the fly as you do now.

Most likely the system will remain unchanged and I will put up with it, however it is not what I would want in an ideal situation. FFXI had it right, you could be a WAR and use a G.Axe, Single Axe, Duel wield Axe, Polearm and so on, certain weapons and weapon skills were better for different situations. If you were and RDM and you went to solo you would use a sword and shield, when you join a party you whip out your stave. Changing weapon did not completely change your class like FFXIV does, in FFXI it allowed you to play your role differently depending what you were doing. In FFXIV you can't do that at all and that for me was a mistake.

[AlexiaKidd]

True, doin everythign all over again isnt a smart but often used approach by many mmos.
Too bad you get almost everything handed over in ffxiv without doin anything but sping...
They could spice it up with more stories and quests involving your character and his development, so you could get a lot of skills only by doin this, so there wouldnt be the need of leveling mindless to cap, instead you would have to do other challenges to improve your abilites or get new ones (the few you get by leves... well... its another boring leve-thing).
Questing for content, or additional character features would be a great thing imho.

They did say that new abilities for Job would be unlocked through quests ^^

[Sorel]

With all due respect, this is old news. The original ZAM post is from May 28th. Bayohne already posted about it on June 1st.

Spoke to the dev. team to try and wrangle some more details regarding the upcoming job system. The current thinking is to have one job for one class. So for example, if you are a gladiator, the job you could unlock would be paladin, etc. Right now, we can't give any further details about the possibility of having multiple jobs per class.

To try and stave off the coming flood of "So if gladiator becomes paladin, then what will xyz class unlock?" You'll have to stay tuned for more details in the future!

[Archadius]

How is it redundant? A paladin will tank better than a gladiator, therefore will be what tanking gladiators use in parties and dungeons. They will still use gladiator for soloing and situations where they need to be flexible.

It's an effort to make each person in a group good for one particular role, not the spammy mass of same-y classes we have right now in party situations.

No no, the redundancy is the bit where it says "if your GLA is already lvl 50, when you unlock PLD it will also be lvl 50". So basically you don't get the enjoyment of leveling an additional class, you start out capped. I'd prefer to learn the new abilities/traits and style of play by going through the process over again. Takes all the fun out of it if it's just handed to us like that

[Sephr]

Well if that is what you like and want then great that is your opinion and your entitled to it, mine however is different. I do not like the armoury system and I do not like classes being tied to weapons. I think it was a big mistake from the start and I hope it is something that will be rectified.

The Armoury system from the start caused problems the Job system is going to try and correct those problems. If from the start they would have just made classes actual jobs that learnt skills, traits and abilities and made weapons just learn weapon skills then we wouldn't even be in this mess right now.

I do not like that as a MRD I am tied to a G.Axe forever and can not use any other weapon. When Job's come along if WAR is unlocked from MRD then that will be stuck with a G.Axe forever, I will not be able to use different weapons like single handed axes and still retain my WAR skills.

The argument for being able to switch classes quickly is stupid, there is no reason they couldn't put a Class/Job option in the menu to allow you to switch jobs on the fly as you do now.

Most likely the system will remain unchanged and I will put up with it, however it is not what I would want in an ideal situation. FFXI had it right, you could be a WAR and use a G.Axe, Single Axe, Duel wield Axe, Polearm and so on, certain weapons and weapon skills were better for different situations. If you were and RDM and you went to solo you would use a sword and shield, when you join a party you whip out your stave. Changing weapon did not completely change your class like FFXIV does, in FFXI it allowed you to play your role differently depending what you were doing. In FFXIV you can't do that at all and that for me was a mistake.

At this point, I'm fairly worn out with this whole debate because of that other huge thread, so let's just say it's all a case of opinion. I still don't really see what the fuss about wanting to use a weapon with a certain class is anyway, in FFXI you couldnt use the weapon skills with one class on another, and in FFXIV you can transfer base-class skills from one class to another. It's more about the weapon than it is in the title in FFXIV and that seems to be something people can't get their heads round.

[Sephr]

No no, the redundancy is the bit where it says "if your GLA is already lvl 50, when you unlock PLD it will also be lvl 50". So basically you don't get the enjoyment of leveling an additional class, you start out capped. I'd prefer to learn the new abilities/traits and style of play by going through the process over again. Takes all the fun out of it if it's just handed to us like that

So you'd level gladiator to 50, then essentially level gladiator again to 50, with some new defensive spells and overall, a much slower experience because it would be a poor choice in low-man and solo situations.

Sounds lame to me. The reason they did it this way was so you wouldn't have to take specalisations up to 50 and suffer for it like you do in FFXI. No, even now, a WHM isn't going to be able to solo well in FFXI for your average player. God knows what it's like to level BRD up.

[Viridiana]

Why are so many people saying that GoLDsmith is gonna unlock Paladin? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. Not to mention they've said crafters aren't getting jobs, anyway. >_>