XIV and the MMORPG Genre

[Gwaiyn]

Well, I have quite a bit to say today and a lot of you may not like it. The main point of this thread is that FFXIV ARR has set the mmorpg genre BACK quite a bit, and it's not because it's a bad game, in fact, FFXIV ARR in itself is a pretty good game. The development process for FFXIV ARR however, was not good for the genre because any potential developers/companies looking to create a new MMO will look back at FFXIV and FFXIV ARR and think "If I deviate from what every MMO has, my game will fail".

FFXIV ARR made me realize that the MMO genre will NEVER change, not for a very long while at least. The next "new" MMOs for the next few decades will always contain the same archaic class system, the same archaic dungeon system with LFG/LFR, more or less the same tab targetting system, and of course the same UI that EVERY MMO uses. All of these things were more or less made popular by World of Warcraft, and as of right now, the current trend for the success of MMORPGs is based entirely on which MMO replicates these systems the best.

The original FFXIV didn't have many of these things, it had an ATB combat system which involved manually using your attacks to build up TP and then using that TP to attack with skills, fairly different UI where most things were organized into menus and I don't recall it having dungeons or raids. This would have actually been a decent game in my opinion, but due to the numerous bugs and glitches that plagued the original XIV, it ended up being a terrible failure.

This led to the development team being switched around and the game being remade into what it is today, a WoW clone. As I stated earlier, FFXIV ARR being a "WoW clone" does NOT in any way shape or form make this game bad, but it's booming success will definitely make newer developers and companies that are looking into the MMO genre really think about how they should design their game. To a company pouring millions of dollars into a game and looking to profit off of it, FFXIV's story has become a cautionary tale about deviating from the magic WoW formula that every triple A MMO has abided to. To the players however, this means that innovation in the genre will be so far and so few in between MMOs that they might as well all be the same game renamed multiple times.

A good GAME doesn't always have to have an auction house, or dungeons, or raids, or LFG, or even a class system, it could do well with things as simple as player created content. However, we've brainwashed ourselves into believing what an MMO should and shouldn't have, and because of that, the entire genre has really just merged into nothing more than WoW and all of it's millions of clones.


TL: DR FFXIV is a great game and it was very successful, but the way it was created and it's lack of innovation in ARR will stop new devs from bringing new things into the genre

[Ryios]

The biggest problem with game companies, is dumping so much money into a game for shinies and pretty graphics and cutscenes. Game companies have lost site of why people play games. We play them to have fun. There are too many things in current mmo's designed to impede or block fun (to slow people down because you can't shoot out content fast enough etc).

If companies took all the resources they dumped into CG edited Cut scenes, insane special effects, crazy high texture details, etc etc and instead focused it on making content, they'd get more $$$ return, they'd have a higher subscription base.

I'm sorry, but if you make a game fun, and I mean addictingly "Can't put it down" fun, people don't care about graphics. Minecraft is a good example of that with 20's of millions of people playing it.

I mean, some games today, is like seeing your tax money go to paving a road in the middle of no where that no one drives on and could have stayed gravel when the main high way has pot holes.

Let me summarize this further. The biggest problem is "we" the consumers buy games on hype. We see a Kick Azz Trailer and read all the dev blogs and interviews and get so hyped up about a game, we buy it, and find out it sucks or it's a clone of something and we'll get bored in a year.

Companies spend a ton of money on hyping their games up, because people will buy them on pure hype.

If every consumer in the world got smart and let the game linger for a week or two and see how it's received from a minority of people, they'd quit that marketing strategy real quick.

[Sumii]

I haven't taken the time to read your post yet. However it would do the community a favor if you took all of your several posts and condensed it into the OP.

Yes, there's a stupid 1000 character limit (plus other dumb limits) on the forums. However, if you go and EDIT the original post the limit no longer applies.

EDIT: Blame player polls "mob mentality" wanting what they're familiar with. A gamer that played FFXI or any ATB style game is a niche population compared to the WoW crowd. You will never see a game to your liking any time a Dev asks the population 'what they want'. Course you'll probably never get an overall great product doing that either. But maybe.

Generally what happens when you ask a large group what they really want you end up with this:

[Ryios]

If they implemented something like my Gear Idea, "http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/125292-An-Idea-to-fix-an-old-archaic-design-of-a-loot-system" this game would be innovative and outside of the box.

[MageBlack]

That's why they call it a "genre".

[Zafrei]

Well, I have quite a bit to say today and a lot of you may not like it. The main point of this thread is that FFXIV ARR has set the mmorpg genre BACK quite a bit, and it's not because it's a bad game, in fact, FFXIV ARR in itself is a pretty good game. The development process for FFXIV ARR however, was not good for the genre because any potential developers/companies looking to create a new MMO will look back at FFXIV and FFXIV ARR and think "If I deviate from what every MMO has, my game will fail".

FFXIV ARR made me realize that the MMO genre will NEVER change, not for a very long while at least. The next "new" MMOs for the next few decades will always contain the same archaic class system, the same archaic dungeon system with LFG/LFR, more or less the same tab targetting system, and of course the same UI that EVERY MMO uses. All of these things were more or less made popular by World of Warcraft, and as of right now, the current trend for the success of MMORPGs is based entirely on which MMO replicates these systems the best.

The original FFXIV didn't have many of these things, it had an ATB combat system which involved manually using your attacks to build up TP and then using that TP to attack with skills, fairly different UI where most things were organized into menus and I don't recall it having dungeons or raids. This would have actually been a decent game in my opinion, but due to the numerous bugs and glitches that plagued the original XIV, it ended up being a terrible failure.

This led to the development team being switched around and the game being remade into what it is today, a WoW clone. As I stated earlier, FFXIV ARR being a "WoW clone" does NOT in any way shape or form make this game bad, but it's booming success will definitely make newer developers and companies that are looking into the MMO genre really think about how they should design their game. To a company pouring millions of dollars into a game and looking to profit off of it, FFXIV's story has become a cautionary tale about deviating from the magic WoW formula that every triple A MMO has abided to. To the players however, this means that innovation in the genre will be so far and so few in between MMOs that they might as well all be the same game renamed multiple times.

A good GAME doesn't always have to have an auction house, or dungeons, or raids, or LFG, or even a class system, it could do well with things as simple as player created content. However, we've brainwashed ourselves into believing what an MMO should and shouldn't have, and because of that, the entire genre has really just merged into nothing more than WoW and all of it's millions of clones.


TL: DR FFXIV is a great game and it was very successful, but the way it was created and it's lack of innovation in ARR will stop new devs from bringing new things into the genre

Sorry but is this serious? There are at least three games currently in development which smash the traditional model to bits - EQN, TESO and Star Citizen.

[Sumii]

That's why they call it a "genre".

By your statement then every single science fiction book should be almost identical/cookie cutter.

Genre means they have general similarities to be grouped in, not that they are all identical.

[storm]

quite the contrary.

The mmo genre is expanding and moving away from the WoW model.

Tera online, and Blade and Soul, are both non tab-targeting mmo's with action based combat systems that are far more intense than FFXIV, WOW, or any other tab targetting mmo, they lack in other areas but it's a neat combat system that is certain to expand and be improved upon.

There's also GW2 which breaks away from the holy trinity of tank, healer, dps for its party configurations.

While B&S isn't currently in the US, all three MMO's are doing pretty well for themselves, without being WoW Clones.

Having said all that. FFXIV's combat is fine. WoW is still a decent model to set as your base and expand upon. Having played WoW for quite some time, the games do not feel very similar at all frankly.

FFXIV 1.0 didn't fail because it was innovative. It failed because it was developed in a vacuum.

[Jimsvaliant]

Yoshida made it very clear from the get go that his remake of FF: XIV was not going to shift the paradigm. He made it very clear that he intended to go with the safe route and try to make this game as polished as a tab targeting MMORPG could be. There are other MMO that have either already been released or are currently in development that set out to accomplish what you described in the OP. Neverwinter and Guild Wars 2 are not your generic tab target MMOs and both these games have been fairly successful. Elder Scrolls Online and Everquest Next are two more games that will not be featuring standard tab targeting combat and Everquest has promised user generated content. Tab targeting fantasy MMOs is actually a very niche genre and there are already countless other MMOs that differ vastly from this genre.

XIV is already laughed at by developers and critics that claim that it is too generic. Have you seen how much hype there is for the other MMOs that are currently in development?

[Fynneun]

I'm sorry but I need to ask whether you have even touched World of Warcraft in your lifetime to think that making a statement such as that was a plausible idea.