Butcher's Block... worthless.

[Giantbane]

Yes, a 9 step rotation using 6 different abilities in the main rotation with 2 debuffs to manage keeping them up full time for maximum efficiency with extra abilities including a DoT to handle as well also abilities that use a secondary resource to be used when reaching full wrath to mitigate damage or to get more AoE agro or dps compared to a 3 button rotation with 2 off the GCD rotational abilities one of which cannot be used if you're in a silence rotation.

Warriors are clearly boring.

If I didn't want more abilities to juggle, I would play PLD.

I'm trying new rotations, have a different ability layout, and I'm running brand new dungeons where I don't really know what's coming or so I'm distracted by that. I'm screwing up my combos and not really using my cooldowns effectively and sometimes missing mid combos because I hit the wrong button in the sequence and I'm still not losing agro when the entire party has their +1. Hell, if I open up with Unchained & Berskerk I get so far ahead I can just do SP->SE for a while and ignore BB entirely unless I've got another tank in the party.

It was *good* where it was. I could see a little adjustment, maybe in our AoE abilities if they wanted to make tanking groups easier. Not necessary, but fine. On the other hand, whatever they did to Defiance is just over the top. It's too much.

[Kitru]

On the other hand, whatever they did to Defiance is just over the top. It's too much.

This. The buffs to Defiance and Shield Oath completely removed enmity subgame from tank play. Before 2.1, you had to watch enmity and compete and attempt to maximize it. Now, you just kind of walk up and, no matter what you do, you'll have all the enmity you could ever need. It's boring not because it allows you to splice in other combos but because it removed an entire aspect of tanking from the game. It's akin to removing TP and MP from DPS: you're removing an aspect of that role's playstyle that had to be considered. Even if removing it freed up attention to focus on other aspects, it's still arbitrarily cutting off a portion of the game.

[Leiron]

That is a false arguemnt.
More enmity means more breathing room, means you can do more that you weren't able to in the past.
BB>BB>SE.
That was ALL a WAR ever did for Enmity.
You never had a choice in the past, so to even suggest there was a choice in the first place is false.

Secondly, BBs till has a purpose. You are still using it for maintaining enmity, so it still has its place.

Literally nothing changed.
So the complaints don't have any basis to them.

"Tanking is boring now"
It wasn't boring before?

[Giantbane]

No, Leiron, it's just too easy now. That makes it more boring than it was before as you've got one less thing that requires paying any attention to.

[Delorean]

No, Leiron, it's just too easy now. That makes it more boring than it was before as you've got one less thing that requires paying any attention to.

so.... just use a crappy weapon?

[Leiron]

No, Leiron, it's just too easy now. That makes it more boring than it was before as you've got one less thing that requires paying any attention to.

Except its not any different now.
In the past, you lose agro, you can't fight to get it back.
If a DPS was ripping agro off of you, there were two problems.

1. Outgeared
2. You didn't use your coodlowns/combo properly.

To the first, you couldn't do anything about it. The only thing that could be done to resolve the problem was for the DPS to stop attacking period.
There was nothing in your hands about it. There was no "let me pop a taunt to regain a chunk of threat."
There was no skill in volved.
No choice or anything.

Nothing has changed at all.
The only thing that changed was the fact the current available tools became more powerful.

Now?

Its the same deal, the only difference is there is more enmity so its harder for DPS to rip.
It isn't ANY different than before because your tools have not changed, the only thing that changed was the effectiveness.
Tanks dont have burst threat in this game.
They don't have a proper taunt.

Literally NOTHING changed, so I fail to see why anyone is up in arms when you should never have beenlosing agro in the first place, and you probably never was in danger of losing agro anyway.
You're literally complaining about something that never existed to begin with, which was agro management.
You either did your BB combo and constantly maintained threat, or you...did nothing.


Honestly think about it, even if they left threat alone, would you be playing any differently than now?
No.
Of course not.
Tanks never HAD a choice about how much enmity they generated. They could NEVER reduce the enmity of anyone else either.


tlR

Before the buff: Good tanks didn't lose agro.
After the buff: Good tanks still don't lose agro.

End result? Nothing changed.
Really guys, get over it.

[Deadly_M1st]

Before the buff: Good tanks didn't lose agro.
After the buff: Good tanks still don't lose agro.

End result? Nothing changed.
Really guys, get over it.

I would have to agree. While I am new to FF14 I am a long time MMO vet. If you are using your skill sets and rotations correctly even with out a buff like this you should be able to hold threat. It's just that easy. It is the tank way of life.

[ZDamned]

Before the buff: Good tanks didn't lose agro.
After the buff: BAD tanks don't lose agro.

End result? Skill requirement changed.

Fixed that for you. =P

[AppleGrocer]

Fixed that for you. =P

I hate to disagree with you ZDamned, but honestly, how "good" of tank did you really have to be in 2.0 to not lose agro?

Good tanks weave OGCD abilities in their rotation to maximize DPS. Good tanks pick up adds quickly and efficiently. Good tanks keep the appropriate buffs/debuffs up at all times. Good tanks know when to pop a CD. Good tanks know how to position a mob correctly.

Bad tanks did none of these things in 2.0, and they still don't in 2.1

Holding agro has never, ever been the designated skill factor for tank

[Leiron]

Fixed that for you. =P

In order to be a bad tank, you would have to not know BASIC gameplay.
There is nothing skillful about using the same combo over and over and over.
In the case of WAR, 2 combos.

If you honestly believe this changes the required skill level at all, then you've never done anything more complicated in an MMO.