Butcher's Block... worthless.

[Einheri]

The increase in threat may also play a proactive role. With 2.2 a new set of coil challenges and assumed tier of gear will push dps and healers ahead of the tanks. They have one main goal to heal or dd a tank needs to survive and dd to build threat. This splits their stat allowance and as seen in other gear progession mmo's leaves tanks at a disadvantage in threat production.

[Leonus]

So... having your OT not hold back anymore and able to deal more damage without ripping aggro off you is a bad thing?

Also, aggro management isn't rocket science. Instead of pressing 1-2-3 before, you're going to be able to press 1-2-4, 1-2-5 and so on and so forth.

This changes NOTHING.

Yea, the pld who was tanking with me last night could spam RoH the entire time and not rip hate off me on war (without me spamming BB Combo). He thought it was a bit insane, said he HAD to use provoke or he wasn't gonna take hate.

[OmegaSinX]

Yea, the pld who was tanking with me last night could spam RoH the entire time and not rip hate off me on war (without me spamming BB Combo). He thought it was a bit insane, said he HAD to use provoke or he wasn't gonna take hate.

I'd like add Im not sure how much enmity modifier Steel Cyclone has but it seems to be a huge leap in threat compared to Overpower and Flash. It's prolly more effective to use Unchained and Overpower spam for AoE over time, But SC seems really good for AoE Snap threat.

[ZDamned]

Because DPS and healers scale better than us and our foundational role in a group as a tank is to... you know... tank the mobs.

It's like a house. (SNIP!)

DPS and Healers did not scale better than us... We were just forced to put out Bonus attribute points into a stat that doesn't effect enmity at all. Where as Healers, and DPS are adding stat points into Mind/Int/Strength/Dexterity All of which directly effect their potency.

I guess, perhaps a better example of how I see this being an issue is this:
How about we remove all positional requirements from Dragoons, and make their combo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Repeat.
How about we make all Summoner DOT's last until the enemy dies?
How about we make Greased Lightning a permanent buff for Monks while removing their positional combos?
Why doesn't every single cure from a White Mage/Scholar just cost no MP?
Why should Black Mages need to use Umbral Ice just to keep casting Fire again?
How about we remove TP/MP Costs from all Bard abilities?

[ZDamned]

I'd like add Im not sure how much enmity modifier Steel Cyclone has but it seems to be a huge leap in threat compared to Overpower and Flash. It's prolly more effective to use Unchained and Overpower spam for AoE over time, But SC seems really good for AoE Snap threat.

It's not even nessecary. Overpower with Unchained accounts for nearly 2000 damage worth of Enmity in a single use... AND it deals enough damage to totally forego using SC in an AOE situation. After the 3nd Overpower, you literally will NEVER Lose threat, Unless the enemies are taken down to 5% of their HP by 1 single person....

[OmegaSinX]

I guess, perhaps a better example of how I see this being an issue is this:
How about we remove all positional requirements from Dragoons, and make their combo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Repeat.
How about we make all Summoner DOT's last until the enemy dies?
How about we make Greased Lightning a permanent buff for Monks while removing their positional combos?
Why doesn't every single cure from a White Mage/Scholar just cost no MP?
Why should Black Mages need to use Umbral Ice just to keep casting Fire again?
How about we remove TP/MP Costs from all Bard abilities?

Thats a pretty drastic comparison. If SE Doubled our potency on all our attacks then maybe you could compare the 2.Last I check threat does nothing for you if your doing what your suppose to do in the first place. You still have to use your Enmity moves and Bad tanks will still stick out thru their action. What are we arguing about really ?

[Calib0s]

I guess, perhaps a better example of how I see this being an issue is this:
How about we remove all positional requirements from Dragoons, and make their combo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Repeat.
How about we make all Summoner DOT's last until the enemy dies?
How about we make Greased Lightning a permanent buff for Monks while removing their positional combos?
Why doesn't every single cure from a White Mage/Scholar just cost no MP?
Why should Black Mages need to use Umbral Ice just to keep casting Fire again?
How about we remove TP/MP Costs from all Bard abilities?

You can't seriously believe these are apt comparisons. Even with the enmity boost, surely no one believes that Warrior became less complex to play in comparison to 2.0? If you do, I'm sorry but you don't understand where skill actually comes in to play in this game.

It's got nothing to do with enmity.

[Leiron]

Fixed that for you. =P

In order to be a bad tank, you would have to not know BASIC gameplay.
There is nothing skillful about using the same combo over and over and over.
In the case of WAR, 2 combos.

If you honestly believe this changes the required skill level at all, then you've never done anything more complicated in an MMO.

[ZDamned]

It did become less complex in the Enmity generation department. =P

[Leiron]

It did become less complex in the Enmity generation department. =P

Okay, in what way has the method of gaining enmity changed?
Did they change the combos needed to gain enmity? No.
All they did was increase the amount of enmity gained.
The gameplay itself didn't change, all that happened was the gameplay became more effective.

There was never any skill towards gaining enmity.
Heck there was nothing you could do once enmity was lost other than continue doing your combo as you did before.
There was no skill from the start, and it is wrong to suggest there is a loss of skill after the changes.