Butcher's Block... worthless.

[Deadly_M1st]

Before the buff: Good tanks didn't lose agro.
After the buff: Good tanks still don't lose agro.

End result? Nothing changed.
Really guys, get over it.

I would have to agree. While I am new to FF14 I am a long time MMO vet. If you are using your skill sets and rotations correctly even with out a buff like this you should be able to hold threat. It's just that easy. It is the tank way of life.

[Gamemako]

So SE throws us a bone and the first thing you do is complain about it ? With all due respect but are you a masochist or something ?

OK, so SE should just make everyone deal infinite damage per hit so we can one-shot every opponent ever, then we should thank them because "lol they threw us a bone"? Auto-winning isn't fun, and enmity is a rigged game. Enmity should be completely removed at this point because it serves no purpose whatsoever. It's a waste of the screen real estate used to display it. Tank stance = enemies can't attack anyone else, move on and stop pretending you even need a system at all because the current one is actively, deliberately superfluous.

[KokuRyuha]

OK, so SE should just make everyone deal infinite damage per hit so we can one-shot every opponent ever, then we should thank them because "lol they threw us a bone"? Auto-winning isn't fun, and enmity is a rigged game. Enmity should be completely removed at this point because it serves no purpose whatsoever. It's a waste of the screen real estate used to display it. Tank stance = enemies can't attack anyone else, move on and stop pretending you even need a system at all because the current one is actively, deliberately superfluous.

still...have you ever lost aggro in 2.0? (don't count rare occasion when someone (bardXD) pulls before you can do anything) I think the answer is no. so what changes?

[Molly_Millions]

I rarely used it anyway. Most of the time I out-geared the rest of my group and could do dmg combos and not worry about losing hate.

[whiskeybravo]

I like the new changes. Tanked Garuda EM and Ultimate Weapon HM and Copperbell HM last night. Was so far ahead in threat on Garuda it was silly, the only one close in aggro on UW was the other tank. Nice being able to use the other combos! I did have some aggro problems on Copperbell HM mainly due to not knowing the layout/figuring out what enemy to knock out first, but it wasn't anything 1 flash and overpower couldn't take care of (nice quick animation on OP too). I'm lovin it

[OmegaSinX]

OK, so SE should just make everyone deal infinite damage per hit so we can one-shot every opponent ever, then we should thank them because "lol they threw us a bone"? Auto-winning isn't fun, and enmity is a rigged game.

That's a horrible analogy. Just because square tweaked Defiance and Shield oath doesnt mean everyone will start facerolling Turn 5 Now. Theres more to End Game Raiding than just holding threat. Still have to worry about Controlling the Mobs in benefit of the party, Focusing and reacting to raid Mechanics, Using interupts, Using CD with Perfect timing to maximize mitigation. You act as if all were going to do now is use BBs and RoHs and just stand there and eat Plumes, Mountain Busters, Death Sentences.

Tank stance = enemies can't attack anyone else, move on and stop pretending you even need a system at all because the current one is actively, deliberately superfluous.

The Changes made it easier for a Tanks who are equally Geared or Outgeared their party members. Still possible to pull threat off of undergeared tank and anything Pre-50. If you ask me, the change made tanking more Future Proof, because as the DPS margin continues to grow between tanks and pure DPS, it would become a problem since PLD and WAR both sacrifice % of their Damage. This was a re-evaluation of how fast DPS threat scaled.

[Traek]

I agree with the sentiment it is a little over the top. I liked the idea of it, in just giving us the ability to weave in both SP and SE combos with BB as needed. I wish they would have put either SP or SE (preferably SE) off of a comboed SS. We'd still make a choice of less enmity, but it wouldn't dig so hard with no enmity increasing Weaponskills x3. Also throwing up maim constantly just doesn't feel right.

Not complaining, overall I'm loving the Warrior changes. I did however enjoy the effort tanks had to put forth in enmity compared to other MMOs out there with "I win" buttons.

[PiedPiper]

Hate wasn't ever an issue.

If you want to complain about enmity sub game being removed from tanks, complain that it was left out of 2.0 entirely as it never existed (you should never loose threat ever in 2.0, more so now).

The difficulty of building hate was one thing launch 1.0 had right. Of course, when it was very complex and unforgiving back then, the forums were full of people complaining the game was "un-tankable."

I'm a paladin, so you know I feel your pain about the game feeling simplistic and uninteresting for tanking. At least you have debuffs to manage.

But, end of the day. We're tanks. We're the simple soldiers of fantasy games. We hold the line and take damage that our friends might be safe. If we are lucky, they'll add more support skills to paladin and more interesting damage / debuffs to war. Give it time. At least both classes, for one of theonly times in history of the game, are viable.

[ZDamned]

Perhaps we should start getting angry about Fresh 50 Tanks not being able to take hits in Coil next?

The whole "Fresh 50" argument is silly to me... in what world does a pebble being tossed at a giant cause more concern to the Giant than a boulder being Catapulted at him?

A fresh 50 is very much level 45 from gear, and at best, lets assume they spend Gil, level 50 from gear.
A seasoned 50 is at the very least level 70 from gear, Main class your looking at probably level 84-90.

Why does anyone here feel that s a level 45 tank should be able to hold threat over a level 84 Damage dealer?
This should be impossible if the Damage Dealer is doing everything they can.

Also, a Fresh 50 should not be playing with season'd 50's in the same content!
Can they? Of course! But what is the challenge in that? A Fresh 50, based on this mentality is never going to play the same game of discovery and skill that we played from the start.
It's one thing to find out the strategy from someone who has fought something before, but it's a totally different thing to have someone carried through a fight because they just hit level 50, and suddenly everything is melting in front of them due to the full iLvl 90 DPS squad with them.

Honestly, since it's so mindlessly easy, Enmity should just not be calculated. "If Tank, then Always attack" might as well be programmed into the enemies now like in City of Heroes. (Which was a game designed for casual role players with no equipment system at all for quite a long time.)

[Calib0s]

Also, a Fresh 50 should not be playing with season'd 50's in the same content!

Duty finder. You are going to have groups with very disparate gear sets through no fault of their own. I don't think it's fun for a new tank to stand no chance to hold threat against their teammates, nor is it very fun for geared DPS to have to constantly hold back on what is for them trivial content.

I'd also argue that maintaining threat isn't really the interesting part of being a tank, and assuming equal gear essentially nothing has meaningfully changed from 2.0 anyway. I can't think of a fight where any tank with half a brain was in danger of losing threat to DPS.