Everyone stop it... Players and Staff.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Congratulations on cherry picking whatever part of my post served you most, and discarding the rest. Criticism does not have to be constructive. Criticism is criticism.

A "level headed" person wouldn't defend a company without objectivity or question. No, what you want isn't "level headed", what you want is "apologetic", you want light, kid glove covered, mealy criticism.
Argue my point if you must, but your commentary on how I deliver it, is irrelevant. It was the truth. We're paying for their problem. Just like Diablo 3 players suffered because of Blizzard's problems with RMT.

What I want is people who have a base level of logic and reason and not a herd-mentality "X person says this sucks so I agree and this is the reason because I was told it was" 'criticism'.

Yoshi's own words prove me right. There isn't enough server space. Or is that too anecdotal?

No not anecdotal, just plain wrong.

Our fundamental stance toward housing prices was that we wanted to ensure that plots would be evenly distributed, avoiding a situation in which the wealthiest players could easily buy up all available plots of land. Please understand that while we will be adding servers and expanding housing areas as soon as we can, it is simply physically impossible for us to accomplish this easily, in a matter of one or two weeks.

If the initial price of land was easily within the means of wealthy players, one can envision all available plots of land being snatched up immediately, leaving other players—even those possessing the necessary gil—unable to purchase land for an extended period of time. Seeking to avoid this, we made the difficult decision to go forward with the pricing scheme we presented, aware that many players would be unable to afford housing for a while.

The quoted section is above. This doesn't mean there isn't ENOUGH server space, it means there is a limit to which wealthy players could abuse the system if it was not maintained from the beginning.

[PapesseLudovique]

What I want is people who have a base level of logic and reason and not a herd-mentality "X person says this sucks so I agree and this is the reason because I was told it was" 'criticism'.



No not anecdotal, just plain wrong.

Except that's not what is being done here. I wasn't told anything sucks. I decided that it sucks. You making up imaginary, motivation for my opinions is irrelevant. Mindlessly defending the game is the ultimate herd mentally. I don't see you calling out people who defend based on the same motivation.

So you're calling Yoshi a liar? Who isn't being level headed now?
Are you going to talk the time to correct me? Or just say I'm wrong? How am I wrong? How is YoshiP wrong?

[PapesseLudovique]

The quoted section is above. This doesn't mean there isn't ENOUGH server space, it means there is a limit to which wealthy players could abuse the system if it was not maintained from the beginning.

Right, and what do we have right now? A situation where only the wealthiest FC's can afford the housing!
If they made instanced housing, it would not be an issue. If they had separate housing servers like so many other games, then the problem of imaginary rich players buying up the property too quick wouldn't exist.

But here's the thing, making the prices too high ensures that most plots will remain vacant, taunting the player base and going unused. It also ensures that the rich are still the only FCs that will own them. and assuming that an FC would actually buy up all the plots for themselves is insane.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Right, and what do we have right now? A situation where only the wealthiest FC's can afford the housing!
If they made instanced housing, it would not be an issue. If they had separate housing servers like so many other games, then the problem of imaginary rich players buying up the property too quick wouldn't exist.

But here's the thing, making the prices too high ensures that most plots will remain vacant, taunting the player base and going unused. It also ensures that the rich are still the only FCs that will own them. and assuming that an FC would actually buy up all the plots for themselves is insane.

All opinions. And you obviously underestimate a player base that was happily selling Titan wins at 500k for a win for players that didn't have the patience to complete it on their own. If someone CAN afford to buy 10 plots of land to cause a scarcity of resources, someone WILL buy 10 plots of land. Fundamental economic principle at work.

[PapesseLudovique]

All opinions. And you obviously underestimate a player base that was happily selling Titan wins at 500k for a win for players that didn't have the patience to complete it on their own. If someone CAN afford to buy 10 plots of land to cause a scarcity of resources, someone WILL buy 10 plots of land. Fundamental economic principle at work.

The indication of a bad argument, is the declaration of opinions. Considering you're spouting your own, it seems kind of moot.
Also by creating individual servers, or instanced housing, you'd have avoided the entire possibility.

You also have to question why anyone would waste their money on identicle plots, just because they can.
I'll tell you, it never happened on LOTRO, Rift, or SWG.

So here's an easy solution, limit plots to one per FC. How hard is that? An FC only needs one, so why even let them buy more if you're afraid they'll buy them all?

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Yeah but his interpretation makes sense whereas yours doesn't.

People who have money could afford to buy the plots of land. That in and of itself should not be a problem because it's how buying things works. If you can afford it you should be able to buy it.

If we take this to mean a FEW wealthiest players (wealthiest FCs) could easily buy up all available plots of land so that the unique player to plot ownership distribution was not 1:1 that COULD be considered abuse. But, there is an extremely simple fix for that which involves just restricting one plot per FC leader. Since that explanation is too simple and too mind-boggling as to why they would not or could not implement such a restriction, most of us are giving YoshiP and the dev team the benefit of the doubt in this case (believe it or not), and interpreting that statement as:

"There are more FCs that would be able to afford housing than we could physically provide or handle" assuming the unique player to plot ownership distribution IS 1:1.

It's an assumption, yes. But it's the only explanation that makes any sense if we take for granted that these developers have any degree of competence, which I'm willing to grant them. Not as much as you would expect considering they demand 15 bucks a month for this, but not absolutely none.

That's a fine opinion to have. His interpretation makes more sense to you than mine does, fine by me. That doesn't make it correct. Mine is based on an education in finance and economics where I can easily see the wealthy players in game and the RMT easily abusing the system. a 1:1 ratio would fix it certainly, but being that the Dev team is so unwilling to as of yet have made that determination, I am of the opinion that its because the content they have planned in the future is designed to incorporate this system for housing into future content or as a way to stimulate player involvement in the game's economy while giving crafters and gatherers something they can always participate in.

The indication of a bad argument, is the declaration of opinions. Considering you're spouting your own, it seems kind of moot.
Also by creating individual servers, or instanced housing, you'd have avoided the entire possibility.

You also have to question why anyone would waste their money on identicle plots, just because they can.
I'll tell you, it never happened on LOTRO, Rift, or SWG.

So here's an easy solution, limit plots to one per FC. How hard is that? An FC only needs one, so why even let them buy more if you're afraid they'll buy them all?

That is all an argument is, a difference of opinions. You can classify my arguments as 'bad' all you want, still just another opinion to heap on the pile.

I don't have to question anything. In my mind, I can perfectly see the reasoning a player would have to buy 10 identical plots. It would be so he can hold them and then jack up the prices even higher to sell to the community who didn't have the cash to buy them. Makes perfect sense to me.

[darkstarpoet1]

TI don't have to question anything. In my mind, I can perfectly see the reasoning a player would have to buy 10 identical plots. It would be so he can hold them and then jack up the prices even higher to sell to the community who didn't have the cash to buy them. Makes perfect sense to me.

there is a major issue with your line of thinking. it's already been stated you can buy the land and the house, but you cannot sell them off. yes, i guess you could break your fc, start a new fc 3 days later, rank it to level 6 to be able to purchase the land, the house, and then sell the fc and land that goes with it to someone else, but by the time all of that was accomplished the price would have dropped and more housing was put in place.

there's one thing people seem to always forget. the people didn't get rich by spending stupidly. the people i know, including myself in 1.0, that got tons of money got that way by being stingy with what was purchased. it was not buying 10 of something when it first came out at its highest value and then hope it increased later.

[PapesseLudovique]

I don't have to question anything. In my mind, I can perfectly see the reasoning a player would have to buy 10 identical plots. It would be so he can hold them and then jack up the prices even higher to sell to the community who didn't have the cash to buy them. Makes perfect sense to me.

Study it out, right?
Question EVERYTHING. Always.
http://youtu.be/Uo-QIY7ys-k?t=2m