Auto attack: A complete battle system

[ChiefCurrahee]

Hello, and welcome to playing actual video games where that is required from you. I hope you can get over the culture shock.

Welcome to a video game where hundreds of thousands of players quit seemingly overnight. The lack of content, and the Battle System being the culprits for this one.

What would you say to this:

1,000 people are sticking around right now to see if SE puts in an AA If they Don't those 1,000 people leave.

1,000 people will leave if they do implement an AA.

of the several hundreds of thousands of players who quit maybe 5,000 are willing to come back with AA.

Of those hundreds of thousands of people who quit, how many will come back if the battle system stays the same?


FFXIV if effectively in a beta mode right now. This is the time to try things. For better or worse SE needs to bring players back into the fold. Player Polls show that people who play or played this game do not like the current battle system.

Betelgeuzah, you are in the minority when it comes to liking what we currently have.

[Malakhim]

Betelgeuzah, you are in the minority when it comes to liking what we currently have.

I have to agree with Betel. Where are you getting this statistic from? It's fine if you say a bunch of people are for AA, but it's premature and ignorant to assume that there isn't a sizable group of people that appreciate an active battle system based on a poll that is closed off to people who bought the game, have an active game account, and decided to answer the poll in the first place, and that isn't counting the people who DID post on the poll that they appreciated it.

For example, I've had a group of friends who are veterans of FFXI and several other entries in the series try FFXIV for an hour or so on different occasions, and most of them agree(4 out of 5) that they actually liked the active selection and armory system. These guys don't own a copy of the game or have an active FFXIV account. Where's their say?

Don't assume general unanimity without evidence thereof. It pretty much ruins arguments and perceptions of said arguers even if there's a HINT of truth to the person's argument.

[Linnear]

I have to agree with Betel. Where are you getting this statistic from? It's fine if you say a bunch of people are for AA, but it's premature and ignorant to assume that there isn't a sizable group of people that appreciate an active battle system based on a poll that is closed off to people who bought the game, have an active game account, and decided to answer the poll in the first place, and that isn't counting the people who DID post on the poll that they appreciated it.

For example, I've had a group of friends who are veterans of FFXI and several other entries in the series try FFXIV for an hour or so on different occasions, and most of them agree(4 out of 5) that they actually liked the active selection and armory system. These guys don't own a copy of the game or have an active FFXIV account. Where's their say?

Don't assume general unanimity without evidence thereof. It pretty much ruins arguments and perceptions of said arguers even if there's a HINT of truth to the person's argument.

I am going to assume that the dozons of threads on the topic might be a clue that it is an issue, Yoshi saying they will look at it might also be a hint, the low server pop might be a hint. Granted that they are all speculative, but there is noting sugesting that the system is good or couldn't be improved by an AA either. Unless you know something we don't, I woudl aruge that there is more information sugesting it is bad than good. If you know something we don't please share. If you can show me otherwise I would gladly listen.

[Malakhim]

I am going to assume that the dozons of threads on the topic might be a clue that it is an issue, Yoshi saying they will look at it might also be a hint, the low server pop might be a hint. Granted that they are all speculative, but there is noting sugesting that the system is good or couldn't be improved by an AA either. Unless you know something we don't, I woudl aruge that there is more information sugesting it is bad than good. If you know something we don't please share. If you can show me otherwise I would gladly listen.

I'm not saying I have any quantitative evidence, and I'm also not saying an auto-attack couldn't work.

I'm just pointing out that automatically assuming that everyone is for something and nobody is for the alternative is a dangerous side effect of group think, and that given the very closed nature of the polls and the forums, it's natural that there's going to be a large group of people(including potential customers) that are excluded. It also makes the person making the assumption look dumb.

I also say this as a person guilty of it on a few other forum topics on other FFXIV forums.

[Linnear]

I'm not saying I have any quantitative evidence, and I'm also not saying an auto-attack couldn't work.

I'm just pointing out that automatically assuming that everyone is for something and nobody is for the alternative is a dangerous side effect of group think, and that given the very closed nature of the polls and the forums, it's natural that there's going to be a large group of people(including potential customers) that are excluded. It also makes the person making the assumption look dumb.

I also say this as a person guilty of it on a few other forum topics on other FFXIV forums.

Agreed, generalizations are dangerous and erronous and genearlly a bad idea. Personally I try to stay away from them for the same reasons you mentioned. Personally I think that if the community can be quantative and where not possible, thoughtfully qualitative, we might be able to figure out what everone likes and doens't like about the game. Until that happens I don't see how we can expect SE to make changes to the game that will increase game participation.

[ChiefCurrahee]

I have to agree with Betel. Where are you getting this statistic from? It's fine if you say a bunch of people are for AA, but it's premature and ignorant to assume that there isn't a sizable group of people that appreciate an active battle system based on a poll that is closed off to people who bought the game, have an active game account, and decided to answer the poll in the first place, and that isn't counting the people who DID post on the poll that they appreciated it.

For example, I've had a group of friends who are veterans of FFXI and several other entries in the series try FFXIV for an hour or so on different occasions, and most of them agree(4 out of 5) that they actually liked the active selection and armory system. These guys don't own a copy of the game or have an active FFXIV account. Where's their say?

Don't assume general unanimity without evidence thereof. It pretty much ruins arguments and perceptions of said arguers even if there's a HINT of truth to the person's argument.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

question 1: What do you feel are currently the most significant issues with the battle system? (up to three answers)

2nd biggest issue was "Spamming actions" just behind the lack of class uniqueness.

It speaks volumes for the active battle system is not liked.

[Malakhim]

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

question 1: What do you feel are currently the most significant issues with the battle system? (up to three answers)

2nd biggest issue was "Spamming actions" just behind the lack of class uniqueness.

It speaks volumes for the active battle system is not liked.

...I'm pretty sure you didn't read the rest of my post if that's your response.

I'm not saying a bunch of people are for an auto-attack, I'm saying that due to the very closed nature of the polls and these forums, we can't say that anything is indicative of anything(including my perspective on the issue), and arguing the opposite makes you look totally irreverent to the opinions of people who don't get to post here/post in the polls, and thus makes you look dumb.

I'm not saying you are dumb, in fact I like some of your ideas on other stuff like BRs, but doing that makes your arguments look dumb.

[Linnear]

...I'm pretty sure you didn't read the rest of my post if that's your response.

I'm not saying a bunch of people are for an auto-attack, I'm saying that due to the very closed nature of the polls and these forums, we can't say that anything is indicative of anything(including my perspective on the issue), and arguing the opposite makes you look totally irreverent to the opinions of people who don't get to post here/post in the polls, and thus makes you look dumb.

I'm not saying you are dumb, in fact I like some of your ideas on other stuff like BRs, but doing that makes your arguments look dumb.

Like most things in these forums we want to keep the good and toss the bad, ideas good, method of expressing them, not ideal. Chose better language so you can get your point across easier, I am guilty of this offence myself frequently. Thanks for picking it up Malak

[ChiefCurrahee]

...I'm pretty sure you didn't read the rest of my post if that's your response.

I'm not saying a bunch of people are for an auto-attack, I'm saying that due to the very closed nature of the polls and these forums, we can't say that anything is indicative of anything(including my perspective on the issue), and arguing the opposite makes you look totally irreverent to the opinions of people who don't get to post here/post in the polls, and thus makes you look dumb.

I'm not saying you are dumb, in fact I like some of your ideas on other stuff like BRs, but doing that makes your arguments look dumb.

So you resort to insults... awesome.

Now correct me if I'm wrong please. I believe anyone who has a SE account is able to participate in the Polls. Or is it players how had/have an active FFXIV account? I don't remember. Conversely would you want the opinions of people who may have never even played the game answering those questions?
I would think from a developers stand point, I'd want the views and opinions of people who have actually spent a reasonable amount of time with the game, especially the views and opinions of the ones who left.

I also recollect that Yoshi P said that has several tens of thousands of responses to the players poll.
found the quote:
"And finally, the second Players' Poll has come to a close. As with the first, the turnout was overwhelming, with tens of thousands of users taking the time to make their voices heard. "
link: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...449d1b7c37eb49

How can you argue against tens of thousands of people, when the majority of those people feel that the "spamming of abilities" is the 2nd biggest problem with the battle system? Are they all dumb too?

Your several friends, all 10,000+ of them feel that FFXIV's battle system is fine. None of them own the game, thus haven't spent oh.... I don't know, a month playing the game.

However, anyone with a SE account (which anyone can get) can access these forums. (I believe)

[Malakhim]

So you resort to insults... awesome.

Now correct me if I'm wrong please. I believe anyone who has a SE account is able to participate in the Polls. Or is it players how had/have an active FFXIV account? I don't remember. Conversely would you want the opinions of people who may have never even played the game answering those questions?
I would think from a developers stand point, I'd want the views and opinions of people who have actually spent a reasonable amount of time with the game, especially the views and opinions of the ones who left.

I also recollect that Yoshi P said that has several tens of thousands of responses to the players poll.
found the quote:
"And finally, the second Players' Poll has come to a close. As with the first, the turnout was overwhelming, with tens of thousands of users taking the time to make their voices heard. "
link: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...449d1b7c37eb49

How can you argue against tens of thousands of people, when the majority of those people feel that the "spamming of abilities" is the 2nd biggest problem with the battle system? Are they all dumb too?

Your several friends, all 10,000+ of them feel that FFXIV's battle system is fine. None of them own the game, thus haven't spent oh.... I don't know, a month playing the game.

However, anyone with a SE account (which anyone can get) can access these forums. (I believe)

Nobody is dumb for voicing their opinions. Many people are dumb for assuming that everyone agrees with them and there isn't a group of people who may think differently. Example, look at any auto-attack thread and then look at the Triple Triad thread. Looking at the content alone, you can see that for the most part, people are all for minigame inclusion, whereas there's a sizable amount of people posting here are for and against an AA system. If we were to go by poll results, then that shouldn't be the case at all. This of course keeping in mind that anyone can read these boards, but only those with active FFXIV accounts can post in them as evidenced by this thread, which by definition is a closed system.

I wasn't calling you dumb in the previous post(and I even said as much in it), and I'm still not going to call you dumb. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.].