Simple, small PLD change..

[Truefaith87]

First off, ill start by mentioning my GLA is only 25, but every paladin i speak with says tempered will is very, VERY situational, at best. Thats why i propose a simple, mildly humble idea that would change up the paladin playstyle a little bit. Perhaps remove tempered will, and replace it with a 3rd strike chain for riot blade. Riot already gives mp when in a chain, so why not give paladin a bit more freedom with their emnity generation? Perhaps make the third swing Chaos Blade, a conal minor emnity ability that gives MP leech, instead of mp gain. Maybe 25% of dmg done after the initial conal swing of it. Would give alot more freedom in play than just halone til the behemoths come home, and would give a very beneficial side effect to keep your AOE emnity generation at a higher value. Just mostly looking for opinions and seeing if this garners any interest in the PLD community before tossing it at suggestions.

[TaneshimaPopura]

Tempered will has it's uses.

In the upcoming EM Titan you can use it to prevent the sumo stomp pushback.
Turn 4 you can use it to kite yourself away from Clockwerk Knights during Phase 6
Turn 5 you can use it to take Dive Bombs if you are not confident with dancing.

There are also other situation but rarely happen unless you fail so bad.
Landslide push back on Titan.
Fire pushback on Ifrit for more sticky time
Running through Vortexes to get to the right side in Garuda
Prevent Demon Wall pushbacks

[Itseotle]

Tempered will has it's uses.

In the upcoming EM Titan you can use it to prevent the sumo stomp pushback.
Turn 4 you can use it to kite yourself away from Clockwerk Knights during Phase 6
Turn 5 you can use it to take Dive Bombs if you are not confident with dancing.

There are also other situation but rarely happen unless you fail so bad.
Landslide push back on Titan.
Fire pushback on Ifrit for more sticky time
Running through Vortexes to get to the right side in Garuda
Prevent Demon Wall pushbacks

Would also like to add: Block Fluid Aura (CNJ) so you can continue to deny your enemy team heals.

[Gilthas]

No reason to have this proposed 3rd-part of the Riot combo give enmity.

Warriors only have one enmity combo: Butcher's Block, with the other two giving utility.

If anything, the 3rd-part of the Riot combo should get Rage of Halone's debuff. That way the Riot combo would be pure utility while the Rage of Halone combo would be for enmity.

[Kitru]

If anything, the 3rd-part of the Riot combo should get Rage of Halone's debuff. That way the Riot combo would be pure utility while the Rage of Halone combo would be for enmity.

This would require reworking PLD enmity as a whole, however. WAR gets away with using the BB combo for 50-75% of its total rotation because of Maim and Storm's Eye: the 33% increase in damage from the two of those, combined with the 20 higher potency from BB, means that each of the BB combos a WAR uses in the BB>BB>SE rotation generates approximately 40% more enmity than a single RoH combo. The only reason that PLDs match WAR enmity is because all they do is spam RoH (conversely, it could be said that the only reason that WARs can match PLD enmity is because they have Maim and Storm's Eye).

The fact that PLDs use a single combo to accomplish what WARs do with multiple combos is one of the reasons why changing the PLD rotation gets weird. You could increase the enmity generated per RoH combo to compensate for the percent of animation time lost to the extra combo, but it would end up just making the RoH combo itself more attractive. Imagine if the BB combo were automatically buffed by Maim and Storm's Eye (i.e. it gets the benefit without having to use it so that you don't have to use those abilities): you'd just spam the living hell out of BB and ignore SE. As such, if you want to give PLDs a new combo to use as part of their primary tanking rotation, it either has to match the current enmity per GCD generated by the RoH combo (which is just kind of boring because the only reason you'd have to provide the change is giving PLD another buff/debuff to maintain alongside RoH) or it has to provide a substantial increase to damage/enmity (i.e. just copy what Maim/SE do, which is a worse case of homogenization than what some people claim is happening with 2.1's IB because it's actually making WAR and PLD *play* more alike rather than just changing some mitigation mechanics).

If the devs were to provide a tier 3 attack for the Riot Blade combo, I would much rather it be an attack without an enmity modifier, possibly providing the 10% slashing debuff that SE provides (so that offtanks provide the slashing debuff while tanks focus on enmity generation and the mitigation debuff), so that OT PLDs actually have the option to generate appreciably less enmity than they do while MTing while using a different rotation (like how WAR can use BB>SE or SP>SE while OTing) to prevent pressuring the MT (though I doubt it'll be a major issue in 2.1 since the tank stances are getting an enmity buff that should upset the roughly equal enmity generating state that currently exists between Shield Oath/Defiance and Sword Oath/no Defiance).

[TouchandFeel]

If the devs were to provide a tier 3 attack for the Riot Blade combo, I would much rather it be an attack without an enmity modifier, possibly providing the 10% slashing debuff that SE provides (so that offtanks provide the slashing debuff while tanks focus on enmity generation and the mitigation debuff), so that OT PLDs actually have the option to generate appreciably less enmity than they do while MTing while using a different rotation (like how WAR can use BB>SE or SP>SE while OTing) to prevent pressuring the MT (though I doubt it'll be a major issue in 2.1 since the tank stances are getting an enmity buff that should upset the roughly equal enmity generating state that currently exists between Shield Oath/Defiance and Sword Oath/no Defiance).

Pretty much I agree with this. I am all for the addition of another attack to combo off of Riot Blade so that there is a little more complexity and flexibility to basic combat rotations (or lack thereof) for PLD, but enmity generation should stick to being the point of the RoH combo. Having a different debuff like the suggested 10% slashing debuff or maybe even another one that could stack with the WAR's debuff would be nice so that running with a WAR and a PLD is even better. Another possibility could be something that plays off of the usage of MP, such as a proc that would make the next cure used by the PLD auto-crit or maybe a timed buff to Mind or something like that so it plays off of Riot Blade generating MP while helping to promote the use of the MP gained.

As for Awareness and Tempered Will ... yeah not much more to be said that hasn't already been stated many times.
One is busted and causes more harm than good (Awareness) and one is incredibly situational and under-utilized by the current content (Tempered Will). Both are fairly lackluster.

[DarpaChief]

I'd actually much prefer to have Tempered Will than another combo after Riot Blade. Awareness would be a better ability to change. I don't know if someone's figured out a use for it yet but I never use it, but haven't attempted T5 yet so who knows.

I could foresee an extension to Riot Blade's combo if GLD ever gets another job where MP is heavily used (whether it's for damage/mitigation/healing) then recovered through RB combo, or if PLD ever gets more uses for its MP besides flash in a later expansion - but for now I like the way it's working and I probably wouldn't change anything about PLD just yet.

[caspergrey]

I'd actually much prefer to have Tempered Will than another combo after Riot Blade. Awareness would be a better ability to change. I don't know if someone's figured out a use for it yet but I never use it, but haven't attempted T5 yet so who knows.

I stopped using it when I read there was a bug where it also affected crit heals. Do we know if this has been fixed? I'd actually go back to using it as a filler stop gap it it has.

[Enkidoh]

Like a lot of abilities, Tempered Will used to be far more useful in 1.23 - there it's cooldown time was much less, and coupled with the fact so many mobs used annoying knockback attacks (like plant traps, vultures, boars etc), it was very useful to have. Now, I forget it's even there, as a lot of mobs that used to knockback don't anymore mean it's indeed situational at best.

[caspergrey]

Why not more situations that incorporate tempered will into your lineup? As another poster mentioned, there are plenty of places where you can use it already, just not in make or break situations in most cases. In and of itself, it's actually a good spell. If anything, what would awesome if it came with a speed boost. But, not sure if that really fits into paladin lore. Or a removal of an additional status effect (maybe too OP?), but more in line with the Paladin's holy nature.