Thread: [Discussion] BiS WAR 2.1

Originally Posted by TaalAzura

so whats the confusion here?

This:

Originally Posted by TaalAzura

And the builds aren't role specific, besides Turn1 ADS/Turn 5/Primals there no reason an OT should not be geared the same as MT.

Am I misunderstanding something? it sounds like you totally disagree with me based on that quote.

As for Enmity, I don't have enough reason to believe that we will be able to out Threaten the DPS at without Skull Sunder and BB being used at least every 4th Combo. Not saying you are incorrect because we are both speculating here. I would LOVE for what you suggest to be the reality, Trust me! So lets hope?

But to be more realistic, I want them to make Defiance change to be 150% more Enmity, as opposed to the current 125%.

So, pre-Defiance, 1 Damage = 1 Enmity
- 100 Damage = 100 Enmity
- D 65 Damage = 81.25 Enmity (Pre Patch)
- 2.1D 65 Damage = 107.25 Enmity (2.1 hopeful)

In this case, we sill wouldn't be able to hold without using Butchers Block all the time, because Monks, and Dragoons both are getting heavy buffs this patch to their damage, and we do NOT out damage them even while going full strength. (Bonus and Accessories) So to think that we would be able to hold enmity over them without BB would be very hopeful, but were at a HUGE strength disadvantage compared to both of them.

Originally Posted by ZDamned

Am I misunderstanding something? it sounds like you totally disagree with me based on that quote.

Basically what I meant was for OT, the fights that I listed the OT should be in full DPS gear considering the little tanking that is needed, but for Caduceus/Turn2/Turn4/etc where the OT and MT roles are barely different, they should be geared to optimize tanking ability. I think we're on the same page there, unless I'm missing something x__x

As for Enmity, I don't have enough reason to believe that we will be able to out Threaten the DPS at without Skull Sunder and BB being used at least every 4th Combo. Not saying you are incorrect because we are both speculating here. I would LOVE for what you suggest to be the reality, Trust me! So lets hope?

But to be more realistic, I want them to make Defiance change to be 150% more Enmity, as opposed to the current 125%.

So, pre-Defiance, 1 Damage = 1 Enmity
- 100 Damage = 100 Enmity
- D 65 Damage = 81.25 Enmity (Pre Patch)
- 2.1D 65 Damage = 107.25 Enmity (2.1 hopeful)

In this case, we still wouldn't be able to hold without using Butchers Block all the time, because Monks, and Dragoons both are getting heavy buffs this patch to their damage, and we do NOT out damage them even while going full strength. (Bonus and Accessories) So to think that we would be able to hold enmity over them without BB would be very hopeful, but were at a HUGE strength disadvantage compared to both of them.

I want to believe SE+SP rotation is managable, but I know deep down in order to keep hate a BB rotation is necessary. With that said, tomorrow I'm taking some DPS friends to do their typical DPS rotations on a dummy against me trying to maintain hate without BB, as well as trying to find a rotation that minimizes BB usage if you're interested in any data/findings. If it is possible or close, I would go as far as to put WAR helm/Allagan Hands/melding the ACC for -3 Parry+3 DTR. ALso, you must take into account the fact that fights like Turn 4 and Twintania, the DPS have to occasionally change targets, giving you a chance to build more hate.

Bump, anyone besides ZDamned have anything engaging to say?

Yeah, still waiting for a MT BiS build here too

P.S: No Gryphonskin pleasey <3

I'm quite the lazy type hence I don't really care much about crafting any accessories. I currently am in 11/12 i90, just missing the allagan ring. My stats put me at 481 accuracy after Stuffed Cabbage. All my other stats are what you see if you view my profile. I don't know if I could consider them BiS, but it works for me so far.

I have been messing with spread sheet I put together for warrior gear

all acc's fending

PURE MT Dual Haken, Allagan(helm,belt,legs,feet and ring) warrior(chest,gloves) Hero(earrings and ring) Inferno ring + HQ Finger Sandwhich

Hyur Midlander(30 pts into Vit) 371 Str, 190 Dex, 527 Vit, 582 Par, 487 Acc, 375 Crit, 213 Det, 384 Spd

Just speculation on maxing VIT/Par while keep ~480 Acc

any other ideas?

Originally Posted by TaalAzura

No but it it critical to dmg output. I'm arguing maintaining a 10% damage increase for you as well as the other tank can potentially be prioritized over the BB combo if you're able to maintain enmity through DPS, only using BB early in the fight to build hate and if you are close to losing hate. It depends on a lot of factors and is all theorycrafting until tomorrow.

Well the problem is that you had Monks and DRG getting their massive buffs.
So we'll be a bit mor stressed to maintain enmity.
Trut be told, while SE does provide about 11% more damage, it isn't absolutely critical, so you can afford to not have it up 100% of the time like we do now with BB>BB>SE.
Particularly since the 10% reduced damage is very important for maintaining for the success of the raid.

You do have a point, alot of it is theory and we really won't know how much of an effect this has until parses pop up.

Originally Posted by TaalAzura

Unless theres a minimum skillspeed we need to hit to maintain out SP debuff, its safe to say the other secondary stats are more beneficial...

Why? DTR is the weakest stat for WAR due to offering only a small damage bonus and being focused on autoattacks (damage-based enmity only). Crit is random and has diminishing relative returns with Wrath stacks. Skill speed increases frequency of Inner Beast use and increased damage both, plus offers you the opportunity to get an extra attack off in Berserk before Pacification. I can see prioritizing Parry, but why would you want DTR and CHR?

Originally Posted by Gamemako

Why? DTR is the weakest stat for WAR due to offering only a small damage bonus and being focused on autoattacks (damage-based enmity only). Crit is random and has diminishing relative returns with Wrath stacks. Skill speed increases frequency of Inner Beast use and increased damage both, plus offers you the opportunity to get an extra attack off in Berserk before Pacification. I can see prioritizing Parry, but why would you want DTR and CHR?

It takes 100 Skill speed in order to get 61 GCD in the time you could do 60 without it, so stacking into crit/det will offer a much higher output.