Summoner got destroyed this patch

[RaideDuku]

So, out of curiosity, I went and tested the nerf. Since damage values on ruin aren't changed, this was actually simple. I timed how long it took to cast thunder and the effect's duration. I then cast thunder on a target and spammed ruin until thunder ran out. On the second target, I simply spammed ruin for the same duration (yes, including the time it takes to cast thunder). I did this 100 times to make sure I had a decently sized test pool. Here is a screenshot of the typical difference of damage. The target on the right is the thunder + ruin target. Target on the left is ruin only for the same duration:

So, yeah. So much for SPAM RUIN MOAR. Keep in mind that's 20.42 seconds (give or take a half a second of human reaction time) of damage. Imagine a Titan HM, or coil bosses, and the amount of damage loss is staggering.

[Stupified]

I understand what SE was trying to do. Make SMN better AOE and worse ST to allow MNK and BLM to better compete single target. But heres the thing, you took a SMN into coil because though they had no real advantages in burst dps checks, their overall great DMG made up for it. Now that BLM and SMN will be roughly competitive ST dmg, AND even though SMN might be better at AOE (there are very few endgame situations where AOE is truly a challenge), might as well just Go/Bring BLM for all circumstances. Seems all SE looked at was what they wanted certain job roles to be, not how it translated to overall endgame need.

[Wolfenkritter]

I understand what SE was trying to do. Make SMN better AOE and worse ST to allow MNK and BLM to better compete single target.

I was under the impression the reason for Blizzard II to become CC, was to act more of a situational panic button for when you get surrounded rather than an actual AoE damage skill. Probably relevant to WHM/SCH and PvP... but pretty much worthless on a SMN since, again, they have Tri-Disaster for that.

The SMN's AoE potential will remain unchanged. The only difference is they just can no longer cleave Thunder across multiple enemies in-between using Bane or Shadow Flare.

[Kalandros]

I understand what SE was trying to do. Make SMN better AOE and worse ST to allow MNK and BLM to better compete single target. But heres the thing, you took a SMN into coil because though they had no real advantages in burst dps checks, their overall great DMG made up for it. Now that BLM and SMN will be roughly competitive ST dmg, AND even though SMN might be better at AOE (there are very few endgame situations where AOE is truly a challenge), might as well just Go/Bring BLM for all circumstances. Seems all SE looked at was what they wanted certain job roles to be, not how it translated to overall endgame need.

All I read here is uninformed assumptions
All I read here is boring whining without anything to back up the claims

BLM is getting their own balancing with the fixing of umbral/astral and mana so that they can't do their usual burst tricks. They still have burst, just less frequent
SMN is getting their own balancing with removing a THM dot.


Twintania pull used to go, on the 3 scourges:

BLM opens up on one then triple flares the lot
SMN dots one up, (I like to miasma II the lot before contagion), Contagion, Banes, shadow flares, spend your Aetherflow stacks, get another 3 stack and use it up if you want, dot up twintania while your dots are up on the 3 scourges

So far you haven't needed to ruin spam.

Also pushing Twintania to drop the first Neurolink is all dependent on the DOTs I put - we call dps to stop at 89% right after a Death Sentence. When DPS is called to stop - I open up all my dots + contagion and shadow flare and then we wait for the ~10 second mark before DS for everyone to continue DPS and push her to drop neurolink and do a Death sentence before the first meteor - this way, the MT can go in each conflag to avoid death sentence for the entire conflag phase and only worry about virus during Twisters and the last phase.

I don't know about you, but I quite enjoy this way of controlling the DPS. I got my role in my group.

Things will be slightly different for Twintania with the Virus nerf, but other than that, my own role is unchanged.

[T0rin]

I understand what SE was trying to do. Make SMN better AOE and worse ST to allow MNK and BLM to better compete single target. But heres the thing, you took a SMN into coil because though they had no real advantages in burst dps checks, their overall great DMG made up for it. Now that BLM and SMN will be roughly competitive ST dmg, AND even though SMN might be better at AOE (there are very few endgame situations where AOE is truly a challenge), might as well just Go/Bring BLM for all circumstances. Seems all SE looked at was what they wanted certain job roles to be, not how it translated to overall endgame need.

But BLM will still not be competitive in ST damage, and MNK will only be competitive in fights that involve a lot of pure stand-up DPS. (T1 and T2)

[xardus]

So, out of curiosity, I went and tested the nerf. Since damage values on ruin aren't changed, this was actually simple. I timed how long it took to cast thunder and the effect's duration. I then cast thunder on a target and spammed ruin until thunder ran out. On the second target, I simply spammed ruin for the same duration (yes, including the time it takes to cast thunder). I did this 100 times to make sure I had a decently sized test pool. Here is a screenshot of the typical difference of damage. The target on the right is the thunder + ruin target. Target on the left is ruin only for the same duration:

So , yeah. So much for SPAM RUIN MOAR. Keep in mind that's 20.42 seconds (give or take a half a second of human reaction time) of damage. Imagine a Titan HM, or coil bosses, and the amount of damage loss is staggering.

its a quiet small difference but there is! in a normal boss fight u have to refresh ur rotation about 6 or 7 times,so this difference as to multiplyed by that number...and yes its a big difference now

[Truedragon]

So, out of curiosity,

So, yeah. So much for SPAM RUIN MOAR. and the amount of damage loss is staggering.

^^

Summoner got destroyed this patch

All I can say, is GOOD. We all saw this coming but for those too arrogant to know what is going on. While certainly skills do play a role, the reality is that many smn were doing so well because they had the WIND in their backs. The game mechanics favored risk free range dps and if you were not completely incompetent, you would be riding the train all the way to the bank. While other classes had to work hard and still had the wind in their faces.

We all know this is true. No point in denying this. If you realize that the game mechanics were skewed towards you, then you also understand why they lowered your dps.

[Karnage720]

^^
/snip

This might be one of the most idiotic things I've read on the forums for a while. SMN isn't BRD. Bard is easy to play. You have to be REALLY dumb to be a bad Bard. Summoners, however actually requires skill and competency. There are A LOT of bad SMNs out there. I would say more than 60% of SMNs are trash. Just go DF and see how many of them use Ifrit post 45 as opposed to Garuda. A good SMN will be top or close to top DPS, a regular one, meh. A bad one? Bottom DPS. You? You are probably the ruin spammer SMN going by that asinine comment.

[Truedragon]

This might be one of the most idiotic things I've read on the forums for a while. SMN isn't BRD. Bard is easy to play. You have to be REALLY dumb to be a bad Bard. Summoners, however actually requires skill and competency.

In denial much? Oh those bitter tears taste so sweet.

Quite obvious that you are in denial much. This isnt about difficulty to play. This is about ranged dps being completely risk free. Like you hardly ever get attacked. You hardly ever have to run for AoE. You hardly ever have to stop attacking. You_dont_have_risks_like_melees_do.

So what if you are more difficult to play than Brds? That higher difficulty already translated itself into higher dps unless you think Brds outdps Smns. You were already being rewarded and still will be higher than Brd dps. But do keep those bitter tears coming.

And at least stop calling me names, will you. Try to keep it civilized.

[Viridiana]

This is about ranged dps being completely risk free. Like you hardly ever get attacked. You hardly ever have to run for AoE. You hardly ever have to stop attacking. You_dont_have_risks_like_melees_do.

Everything past HM Ifrit would like to have a word with you.