Huge SMN nerf: we're losing Thunder

[Shamirah]

The problem is... we can't just use Ruin 2 like that. It costs a hell lot of mana.

[Rochetm]

Yeah losing thunder must suck for one the of the top DPS classes with some of the best support you can get in the game.

[Tannlore]

You know, instead of doing thunder you can use Ruin2 a couple of times (in the same time it would require to use 1 thunder). You still lose some dmg (if it doesn't crit, otherwise you gain dmg) but you'll have more burst outcome and blind to help the tank.


Thunder is obviously better than 2 Ruin2, I'm not saying that Ruin2 is better lol. Just saying it's a workaround for not losing much dps.
Still it's not such a big nerf on a Job that has and will still have the highest ranged dps.

Learn to read before saying such wrong things

Ruin 2 spam... ugh, but you may have a point. But it requires crits to compensate. Otherwise it is still a dps loss and an mp loss now. Still nothing to be happy about and still a cut to us esp. with allagan boots. Mythic boots are... I just hope CT gives us a viable crit option for feet that isn't crafted/melded.

[Dannyl]

Now it's Ruin II spam when you have DoTs/Fester up for more burst (that is actually what SMN lacked) and 2% less overall DPS (to be proven).

I agree with other asking what you're smoking. Ruin II is exactly the same damage as Ruin I + blind (with bosses being immuned to) but with instant cast, which is pointless most of the time since it will get you on global cooldown. It's only useful if you need to finish a cast right away to take advantage of an expiring Raging Strike, if you have Aetherflow charges left to fester, a pet command to issue or casting while moving around. It's very usable, but doesn't increase your DPS that much per se, siphon your mp and certainly doesn't compensate for the loss of thunder.

[silentstack]

Ruin II is rather bad of a choice to spam. The mana cost is too high and the Blind kind of messes up tank's Flash when they try to mitigate some damage.

Also, Ruin II deals the same damage as Ruin and Ruin+RuinII spam deals the same damage as Ruin spam.

[Tano]

Ruin 2 spam... ugh, but you may have a point. But it requires crits to compensate. Otherwise it is still a dps loss and an mp loss now. Still nothing to be happy about and still a cut to us esp. with allagan boots. Mythic boots are... I just hope CT gives us a viable crit option for feet that isn't crafted/melded.

MP was never a issue with SMN imo.
and well, on lv90 gear crit is pretty high.

AND you get burst damage, that is the only issue smn has now.

Ruin II is rather bad of a choice to spam. The mana cost is too high and the Blind kind of messes up tank's Flash when they try to mitigate some damage.

Also, Ruin II deals the same damage as Ruin and Ruin+RuinII spam deals the same damage as Ruin spam.

We are talinkg about 2 (TWO) Ruin II instead of 1 Thunder.
You won't have issues with MP.

I said "spam", true, but it's not really spamming. It's just using it once or twice depending on your DoT timer.

[Tannlore]

Ruin II is rather bad of a choice to spam. The mana cost is too high and the Blind kind of messes up tank's Flash when they try to mitigate some damage.

Also, Ruin II deals the same damage as Ruin and Ruin+RuinII spam deals the same damage as Ruin spam.

Yeah Ruin 1+2 = 212, same mp cost as thunder. Considering we're losing thunder, at least one of these in its place will offset some of the dmg. I guess 300+ or 600+potential dmg is better than 0 dmg in that slot. Either way there's a hole in the rotation that needs to be filled with something.

[Tano]

I agree with other asking what you're smoking. Ruin II is exactly the same damage as Ruin I + blind (with bosses being immuned to) but with instant cast, which is pointless most of the time since it will get you on global cooldown. It's only useful if you need to finish a cast right away to take advantage of an expiring Raging Strike, if you have Aetherflow charges left to fester, a pet command to issue or casting while moving around. It's very usable, but doesn't increase your DPS that much per se, siphon your mp and certainly doesn't compensate for the loss of thunder.

Ruin+Ruin2, 2 Ruin2, Ruin2+Drain
whatever. You have a lot of options to replace Thunder. I know that Thunder was better, but still you can work around it.

Not such a big nerf to complain about. Your dps won't even feel it.

[Shikiseki]

Yeah losing thunder must suck for one the of the top DPS classes with some of the best support you can get in the game.

right, you know that our Virus will be nerfed too? If a BLM decides to use Virus, we're pretty much useless.
You also know that our bane gets a secret nerf too? it was supposed to hit all targets from the get go and now it won't even reset "contagioned" dots anymore - making summoner's bane not better than a SCH one.
AoE-binding utility paired with ground aoes + dots is also not an option anymore. I can see that being a nerf due to PvP honestly..

And honestly that Blizzard bind duration + makes Tri disaster even more useless, it does more damage for pretty much the same thing!

Inb4 Eye for an Eye nerf, I see it comming

[Tano]

If I'm not wrong Ruin+Ruin2 has the same casting time+gcd AND MP of Thunder. Depending on your crit you can deal less or more damage then a single Thunder, and you will ALWAYS have more burst peak (so better on low mp mobs, like nodes or ADS adds or Titan's heart) and less wasted dot damage (and blind, if that matters).

So let me correct myself. Actually removing Thunder may have created many better summoners.


However, returning on topic, we can all agree that it's NOT a "HUGE" SMN nerf. I'm not even sure it's a nerf.