Huge SMN nerf: we're losing Thunder

[Yuripa]

The team feels that even with the removal of thunder that summoners still remain an extremely potent DPS job even when compared to monk and dragoon post update.

I'm so sick of reading you guys always saying "the team feels..." and "we understand" then saying but to bad we aren't changing anything. LISTEN to your customers!

[Orihara_Izaya]

I'm so sick of reading you guys always saying "the team feels..." and "we understand" then saying but to bad we aren't changing anything. LISTEN to your customers!

100% agree, don't just make random changes because you feel like it.

[ispano]

perhaps useless was a strong word and over exaggerated. However it wasn't that great either and it hardly boosted our dps. 15% is over exaggerating it by a lot. Even if you used thunder it was what, one of the last few dots to put up and one of the first to be canned when conserving. Even without it, i still out did most summoners in full DL / Allagan / myth gear (or mix match of all 3) and I stopped using it since around lvl 45 or so.

As for blizzard 2.. it's usefulness is debatable.. I've yet to find a decent use. perhaps pvp?

Uh, no. Bio II is 350 Potency for 1 GCD. Miasma is 300 Potency for 1 GCD. Bio is 240 Potency for 1 GCD, as is Thunder. If you're casting Ruin and don't have Thunder up, you were hurting yourself, plain and simple. Ruin is 80 Potency for 1 GCD, for comparison. If Shadowflare ticks every 3 seconds like other dots, it barely beats Thunder out at 250 Potency, and this assumes the mob stays in for the entire duration.

[Raiker]

That's a fair statement, but you could remove a dragoon's jump and say it's still an extremely potent DPS job.

Why did the team decide to just totally remove thunder from our rotation?

I don't get the comparison as Thunder is a cross-class skill for SMN, while Jump is a primary job skill for DRG.
Elaborate, please.

^ What this guy said.

[Raiker]

perhaps useless was a strong word and over exaggerated. However it wasn't that great either and it hardly boosted our dps. 15% is over exaggerating it by a lot. Even if you used thunder it was what, one of the last few dots to put up and one of the first to be canned when conserving. Even without it, i still out did most summoners in full DL / Allagan / myth gear (or mix match of all 3) and I stopped using it since around lvl 45 or so.

As for blizzard 2.. it's usefulness is debatable.. I've yet to find a decent use. perhaps pvp?

I don't overly mind the loss of Thunder, I can deal with it.

But, as you said, I don't quite get the use of Blizzard 2 when I have tri-disaster. Maybe if blizzard 2 was instant or something? Anyways, yeah, I still have no clue in what situation I would need blizzard 2.

[xxalucard]

^ What this guy said.

I mean a skill was removed from the dps rotation. Maybe a better example would be if they just took fracture away from monks?

[Madoka]

The math has been done, Thunder is literally 10.xx% of our personal potency output per rotation including Garuda and overall about a 7% dps loss in long term encounters factoring in fester, enkindle and raging strikes. Suitable for a nerf if we were OP, but not a good way to nerf us.

Blizz2 is useful on groups of 2 or more in dungeons if melee range is safe, but it will eat your MP

[Masekase_Hurricane]

What is it with people and the crocodile tears. Oh no they changed my ability un sub. Well if a nerf now and again makes you un sub then good riddance. Some of you really need to grow a pair. When they lower something alot of time it needs it or its to make way for further updates to the job.

[paradigmfellow]

The team feels that even with the removal of thunder that summoners still remain an extremely potent DPS job even when compared to monk and dragoon post update.

Do not nerf us anymore than this.

[Ri_ri]

What is it with people and the crocodile tears. Oh no they changed my ability un sub. Well if a nerf now and again makes you un sub then good riddance. Some of you really need to grow a pair. When they lower something alot of time it needs it or its to make way for further updates to the job.

What is it with people coming here telling us to "grow up a pair" when they themselves don't even play Summoner, and fail to realize that nerf =/= skill removed?