PvP abilities and the Grand Companies

[Naunet]

While I'm rather peeved at the housing prices, the biggest upset for me in the patch notes has been the PvP information.

It's something we all suspected when we saw that screenshot several days back, but here's the gist:

In additional to normal actions, players can also learn PvP-exclusive actions and traits. These actions and traits can be purchased with Action Points (AP), which are earned by fighting in PvP battles. To view available PvP actions, select PvP Profile under Character in the main menu.AP can also be spent on enhancing the PvP actions and traits that you have learned. Additional effects gained will vary depending on skill.
* By changing Grand Company allegiance, PvP actions obtained as a member of your former Grand Company will no longer be recognized.

I think it's safe to say that the different GCs will have different abilities available. This means there will be a "best" one for any given job. This is absurd. We should not be forced into a particular FC just to make the most of our PvP. That aside, even if this is not the case...

Additionally, these abilities being tied to Action Points earned by (what else) PvPing means the barrier of entry for PvP, which is already often a problem in gear-based, non-normalized arenas, is increased significantly. I adore PvP, so I'll likely be early on the boat with this, but I am taking a stand against this on principle. Abilities should not be locked behind GC rep and one's progression in PvP matches. This is absolutely a poor design decision. Jobs will have to be balance around having these abilities, because if they aren't, they could easily become terribly overpowered; this means that anyone playing without these abilities is going to be severely underpowered, in addition to any gear disparities (which is a normal handicap for MMO PvP without normalization) they might have to deal with.

I sincerely hope Squeenix changes their minds about their design in regards to PvP abilities. I suggest they provide all of them to everyone (completely de-coupling them from Grand Companies) and then allow us to select a smaller subset of the available abilities to slot onto our bars, which should be changeable with minimal expense to accommodate experimenting with different team comps. A system like that would actually make the separate PvP abilities an interesting mechanic (as long as they were designed well), without it being a massive inconvenience on players.

[Insainbutterfly]

I completely agree with this and support your idea. As someone who has been really looking forward to PvP I feel incredibly disappointed by this recent news. I hope Squeenix will read this thread and get the idea that we aren't particularly happy about this.

(Also housing prices are bullshit. Lower that crap so someone can actually buy a damned house.)

[synaesthetic]

I was going to PvP, at least for the PvP gear so I could have more stuff to RP in.

Now I probably won't. GG Squee.

[Allyrion]

I think it's safe to say that the different GCs will have different abilities available.

That is not safe to say.
It is not stated anywhere. The only implication I get is that your abilities are tied to your GC and if you change you will need to gain it back.
It can still be the same abilities.

In fact, they listed the abilities you get and there is no mention of allegiances tied to them.
This is a runaway assumption.

[Naunet]

If they were the same abilities for each Grand Company, there would be zero point in tying them to Grand Companies. None.

Bet regardless of this, locking them behind point walls earned through PvPing is a big mistake.

[Sygmaelle]

You forget the match making ... its in it. Which mean that people havin rank 0 will fight other people beein rank 0 too. Calm down ^^

[Coltvoyance]

Close this. PVP abilities do not differ based on Grand Company. Read and understand the notes more thoroughly.

By switching Grand Companies, anything tied to your previous Grand Company will become useless. This is true for your Grand Company Seals as well and always has been.

Focus your flames on what really matters. Burning down houses made of solid gold.

[Twinsoul]

Additionally, these abilities being tied to Action Points earned by (what else) PvPing means the barrier of entry for PvP, which is already often a problem in gear-based, non-normalized arenas, is increased significantly. I adore PvP, so I'll likely be early on the boat with this, but I am taking a stand against this on principle. Abilities should not be locked behind GC rep and one's progression in PvP matches. This is absolutely a poor design decision. Jobs will have to be balance around having these abilities, because if they aren't, they could easily become terribly overpowered; this means that anyone playing without these abilities is going to be severely underpowered, in addition to any gear disparities (which is a normal handicap for MMO PvP without normalization) they might have to deal with.

This is a very strong point that lots of people are (somehow) not understanding. One of the worst things you can do in MMO PvP is to give unnecessary advantage to those that are furhter progressed and experienced at PvP. These PvP abilities will come off not as a reward for those who have progressed in PvP. Instead, the initial lack of these abilities is going to be a penalty to fresh PvPers for being new, severly damaging the want of people to take part in PvP. It simply will not be fun until you've progressed to a certain point where you finally have access to all your tools.

[Ryans]

If they were the same abilities for each Grand Company, there would be zero point in tying them to Grand Companies. None.

Bet regardless of this, locking them behind point walls earned through PvPing is a big mistake.

You are fighting for your grand company. That is the lore behind pvp. You need to obtain a certain rank and do a certain quest to participate in pvp under the name of your grand company. It makes complete sense for the abilities you gain to be unlocked through progressing in fame through your grand company, but by no means does that require different skilled earned by different grand companies. Especially considering how few skills there are for each job. For example, drg only has 5 possible skills, but you can equip 10. I think it's safer to assume that you can get all of the skills and that you can max out two jobs or get a few skills for multiple jobs.