Twintania + Death Sentance (War)

[Sasagawa]

I am thinking of a few ideas for twin DS post 2.1

Holmgang > [DS] > IB

just a thought but this could be very useful for those huge hits.

Also

Vengence > [DS] > IB > SP

[Sleigh]

Much more likely you'll want to IB before each DS, as it will ensure you won't get 1-shot and the mitigation is worth more HP than the self-heal.

[SpookyGhost]

IB -> Infuriate -> [DS] -> IB

Vengence -> [DS] -> IB

IB -> [DS] -> Thrill (probably your worst option but it's there)

etc.

[Kitru]

Holmgang > [DS] > IB

The only time you'd want to Holmgang on Twintania is right before a Death Sentence where you haven't been topped off. If you actually tell your healers that you plan on blowing Holmgang for Death Sentence, they could stop healing you for the 3-4 GCDs before it to let you slip to 1-2k hp; Death Sentence would then hit you for 6k or so, but you'd still be at 1 hp (which means that it just mitigated more than 2/3rds of the incoming damage) and your healers could top you off in the 3-5 seconds that you'll have left remaining on Holmgang. It would definitely take some timing (tank would need to make sure that there is a decent duration left after the Death Sentence and healers would probably want to precast heals so that you get one dropped on you less than), but it would act as a very impressive amount of damage reduction.

[Paikis]

And then if for whatever reason you don't get topped off for the next DS, you just die because you engineered a failure on the previous DS and now don't have your death-save available.

[Kitru]

And then if for whatever reason you don't get topped off for the next DS, you just die because you engineered a failure on the previous DS and now don't have your death-save available.

Because it's not like there are *ever* strats that are built around tanks using their uber-CD in situations that aren't emergencies (*cough*t4doubledread*cough*).

*You* can reserve your CDs so that you only use them in emergency situations, but some people prefer to actually use their CDs proactively so that they actually see use and affect mean performance rather than just outliers. Holmgang is up as often as PLD's Sentinel so I'm not entirely sure why you think it's risky for a WAR to use Holmgang but not for a PLD to use Sentinel since the CD is exactly the same. Using Hallowed Ground actually creates a more extreme example of problem you're describing because Holmgang only has a 3 min CD while Hallowed Ground has a 7 minute CD (which means that Hallowed Ground has a *way* bigger opportunity cost).

[Paikis]

Because it's not like there are *ever* strats that are built around tanks using their uber-CD in situations that aren't emergencies (*cough*t4doubledread*cough*).

*You* can reserve your CDs so that you only use them in emergency situations, but some people prefer to actually use their CDs proactively so that they actually see use and affect mean performance rather than just outliers. Holmgang is up as often as PLD's Sentinel so I'm not entirely sure why you think it's risky for a WAR to use Holmgang but not for a PLD to use Sentinel since the CD is exactly the same. Using Hallowed Ground actually creates a more extreme example of problem you're describing because Holmgang only has a 3 min CD while Hallowed Ground has a 7 minute CD (which means that Hallowed Ground has a *way* bigger opportunity cost).

I'm not saying don't use it. I'm saying don't engineer a situation where you must use it.

Holmgang is not analogous to Sentinel anyway. The only thing they share is a cooldown timer. As a PLD, you're not reaching for Sentinel when you're at 7hp with a Death Sentence coming in.

[Kitru]

I'm not saying don't use it. I'm saying don't engineer a situation where you must use it.

Eh, I think it's up to your group whether it's a good idea or not. If you engineer a situation where you *plan* on using it for maximum mitigation potential with your healers expecting it, it can be an amazing mitigation tool rather than just an emergency "I don't wanna die!" button (which presents problems to me given that it's still going to have an animation time), which is what I was describing. I, personally, see ToB as more of an emergency button than Holmgang, given that it doesn't reduce damage taken in any way, shape, or form whereas Holmgang does.

[Leonus]

What is really weird is seeing you call it (holmgang) a DR move. Never really looked at it that way, since it doesn't reduce damage until the incoming attack would have killed you. So I just viewed it as a really risky "oh sh#t" button.

[Paikis]

What is really weird is seeing you call it (holmgang) a DR move. Never really looked at it that way, since it doesn't reduce damage until the incoming attack would have killed you. So I just viewed it as a really risky "oh sh#t" button.

That's because it is just an oh shit button.

Using it as Kitru describes is possible, but foolhardy. Holmgang only lasts for 6 seconds and has an animation time. So you're probably going to get 3-4 seconds after the hit in which your healers need to get you back up to a point where you're not going to die as soon as it wears off. You've also had to have your healers deliberately not heal the tank for several GCDs to let his health get low enough for this to work, and what if you time it wrong? Someone gets a lag spike and now your attempt on Twintania is over because you felt like being fancy?