Thief>Ninja/Dancer Class/Job

[Kitru]

So with all of the MSK ideas floating around out there, I'm still more intrigued by other jobs. This is one that I've been developing, on and off, for a little over a month.

THF is your basic positional mDPS class (which seems to be a requirement for mDPS in ARR). It has a couple of DoTs that are required to maximize the damage on one of the combos. The basic expected rotation is Flurry>Hemorrhage>Cheap Shot>Eviscerate, which should have both DoTs, the piercing debuff, and the Flurry buff maintain 100% uptime (15% attack speed increase = 2.125 sec base GCD; 8 * 2.125 = 17 seconds). The complexity is going to be in the substantial amount of bouncing between flank and back required. The average potency per (standard) GCD is going to be around 399.70 (including 83.33 / .85 from auto-attacks and assuming 1 Gil Toss every ~8.2 seconds, based upon Mug and Pilfer). When you hit NIN and replace roughly half of your Shurikens with Katons, it goes up to 412.57 (which is right around what MNK and DRG manage now).

THF will wield a brace of daggers/ninja swords (largely aesthetic difference, much like the difference in the various size swords/shields) that would have very fast auto-attack speed (~1.5 sec; daggers are faster than ninja blades) and use the same armor as BRD (DEX based light armor).

The THF gimmick is the Ill-Gotten Gains resource, which is gained by using Pilfer on a target or has a chance of being given to you when you score a critical hit. Ill-Gotten Gains is an abstraction of the stuff that a THF steals and, when you hit NIN, ninja tools that have traditionally been consumed by throwing.

A lot of the THF utility is built around mobility. Lots and lots of Mobility. Flee and Tumble are both on comparatively low CDs and give you a lot of mobility with a healthy bit of survivability wrapped up in it as well. A lot of THF abilities have this kind of thing going on, where they have multiple disparate types of functionality folded into the same (i.e. survivability and damage, utility and damage, or utility and survivability together).

Random note, all of the evasion buffs are ignored by the primal signature attacks, just like Hallowed Ground, so they can't really be used to cheese spike damage mechanics and don't have anywhere near a high enough uptime to make the class a viable tanking option.

Thief Abilities:

1a. Pilfer: off-GCD, 30 sec CD; 5y range, grants Ill-gotten Gains, infinite duration, generates no enmity

1b. Gil Toss: off-GCD, 120 potency, consumes Ill Gotten Gains

2. Disappear: reduces enmity by half and causes next attack to automatically score a critical hit, 10 second duration, 60 sec CD

3. Quick Stab: 150 potency

4. Flurry: 100 potency
Flank bonus: increase attack speed by 10% for 18 seconds
Combo Action: Quick Slash
Combo Bonus: 190 potency

5. Backstab: 100 potency
Back bonus: 190 potency

6. Cheap Shot: 100 potency
Combo Action: Backstab
Combo Bonus: Damage over time, 25 potency, Duration: 18 seconds

7. Ambush: 50 potency
Flank bonus: 100 potency
Combo Action: Backstab
Combo Bonus: 230 potency
Additional Effect: reduce target's resistance to piercing damage by 10% for 18 seconds

8. Eviscerate: 100 potency
Back bonus: 150 potency
Combo Action: Ambush
Combo Bonus: 75 potency additional damage for each of your Cheap Shot, Hemorrhage, and Hamstring on the target

9. Hemorrhage: Damage over time, 35 potency, Duration: 18 seconds

10. Spinning Strike: 360* AoE, 120 potency

11. Hamstring: 50 potency damage; Additional effect: target is slowed by 50% and takes damage over time; 15 potency, Duration: 18 seconds

12. Trick Shot: Gain the benefit of all positional effects regardless of your current position; duration 10 seconds; 120 sec CD

13. Tumble: Leaps forwards 10y; 30 sec CD

14. Flee: Increases movement speed and evasion by 100% (does not work on signature attacks) and reduces damage dealt by 100%; Duration: 5 seconds; 45 sec CD

15. Artful Dodger: Increases evasion and Dexterity by 10% for 15 seconds; 120 sec CD

16. Master Thievery: Deals 150 potency for each stack of Ill-Gotten Gains you have; 60 sec CD; consumes all stacks of Ill-gotten Gains; off-GCD

17. Distract: Reduces accuracy of target and all enemies within 6y by 10%for 10 seconds; 45 sec CD; consumes Ill-gotten Gains; off-GCD

Thief Traits:

1. Enhanced Pilfer I: Pilfer range increased to 10y, max number of Ill-Gotten Gains stacks increased to 2
2. Mug: 20% chance on critical hit to gain 1 stack of Ill-Gotten Gains
3. Enhanced Hemorrhage: Duration on Hemorrhage increased to 30 seconds
4. Enhanced Flurry: Increase effect of Flurry to 15%
5. Enhanced Pilfer II: Pilfer range increased to 20y, max number of Ill-Gotten Gains stacks increased to 3
6. Improved Trick Shot: Reduce the cooldown on Trick Shot to 90 sec
7. Enhanced Dexterity I: Increases dexterity by 2
8. Enhanced Dexterity II: Increases dexterity by 4
9. Enhanced Dexterity III: Increases dexterity by 6
10. Enhanced Artful Dodger: Increases effect of Artful Dodger to 20%
11. Enhanced Flee: Flee now restores 20% of max hp

Ninja is based heavily around giving you additional uses for your Ill-Gotten Gains. Mirage is another one of those multi-function abilities that provides both survivability and damage, which is based off of the classic ninja body replacement techniques. Katon, Raijin, and Fuujin are the 3 most elementally appropriate Ninjutsu techniques, based upon their elements (fire, wind, and lightning as opposed to ice, water, and earth), which is why I went with them instead of the others. Grand Lethal is a big nuke/buff which follows the same "dual function" mold, even if it's just based around exploding enemies. While it's not a *traditional* Ninja ability, I stole it from Zidane and thought that the name/effect seemed pretty appropriate for a crowning ability for the NIN.

The relic weapon would be the Orochi, a weapon wielded by a traitorous ninja of old that went on a killing rampage before finally being killed by his best friend, who sacrificed himself to impale the both of them with the weapon during the battle. The bloodstained blade remained in that ancient battleground in the mountains of Coerthas along with the bodies of the two ninja, lost to the ages.

Ninja Job Abilities (THF, PGL, ARC):

(Gil Toss changes name and visual effect to Shuriken)
1. Mirage: increase evasion by 100% for 3 seconds and deal 100 potency damage whenever an attack misses you), 60 sec CD, off-GCD
2. Katon: 100 potency; Additional effect: fire damage over time, potency 30 over 21 seconds; consumes Ill-gotten Gains, off-GCD
3. Raijin: 50 potency lightning damage; Additional effect: stun 5 seconds; off-GCD; consumes Ill-gotten Gains
4. Fuujin: 150 potency wind damage ranged AoE, consumes Ill-Gotten Gains
5. Grand Lethal: 300 potency non-elemental PbAoE; increases damage by 20% for 20 seconds; 180 sec CD

The Dancer is a healing job stemming from THF. It repurposes Gil Toss into an off-GCD heal, which, if needed could have its potency bumped up (potentially up to the same 400 as Cure). It uses both TP (for dancer abilities) and MP (for Cure/Physick, which would be maintenance healing). There isn't a stance to swap from damage to healing and DEX is still used as the healing stat because healers tend to hang out at range, and this class must close to melee, which is a much more dangerous location, in order to attack.

The DNC gets all of the requisite traits of a healer: a maintenance heal (Cure), a burst heal (Gil-Toss and Tango Finale), a cleanse (Kiss-kiss), and an AoE heal (Faerie Waltz, which is slightly faster and more powerful than Medica or Succor to make up for not having Medica II or Whispering Dawn to improve it). Jitterbug is a powerful support ability with high comparative uptime that also acts as a burst healing buff for the DNC. Sword Dance is a powerful hit that also acts allows you to get Ill-Gotten Gains at a drastically increased rate.

The relic would be the Dancing Dagger, a weapon of yore used as a by a famous dancer who served the sultan of Ul'dah as his favorite concubine. The sultan loved the dancer so much that, when she died defending him from assassins, the sultan entered a great malaise that threatened to kill him. His most loyal servants, desperate to give the sultan some reason to live again, enchanted the dancer's dagger to give whoever held it the ability to dance as she once did. Even so, the heartbroken sultan died, the dagger was placed in the sultan's vaults and forgotten.

Dancer Job Abilities (THF, ACN, CNJ):

(Gil Toss changes: targets ally, cure potency 200)
(Dexterity used to calculate healing potency)
1. Faerie Waltz: AoE heal, potency 350, consumes TP, 2.0 sec cast
2. Kiss-kiss: Cleanse, consumes TP, 1.0 sec cast
3. Jitterbug: Increase your skill and spell speed by 50 and the skill and spell speed of all allies within 20y by 20%, 15 second duration, 60 sec CD, off-GCD
4. Tango Finale: cure potency 400, heal over time potency 50, 18 sec duration, consumes TP, 2.5 sec cast
5. Sword Dance: attack potency 300, 15 sec CD, consumes TP, grants Ill-Gotten Gains
(Fundamental Assumptions: Dancer will take Cure or Physick to act as baseline ST heal and Resurrection as rez)

[Mcshiggs]

I think they will save the actual Thief for a job, not a base class, and ninja you can expect with samurai down the road with an expansion when they open up the continent of I think it's Radz-at-Han, it is where the skirmish weapons came from, and the tonics for the relic quest. The place has been referred to as the continent of the "Far East" so I think that will pretty much equate to the Japanese styled content I am sure they will release. I'm thinking the first jobs we will see will be things involved in with the empire, I think that is where the first expansion will head.

Limsa who has outlawed piracy, but has become lax on the laws in order to get the pirate gangs to fight I think will see musketeer/pirate type class and jobs. Uldah always wanting to profit as much from anything I think will take advantage of the technology spurring some type engineer/chemist jobs. The groups from Gridania I see leaving the Twelveswood, in order to defend it, moving further into/toward Ishguard opening up the possibilities for more faith based classes and jobs like Templar and zealot. That's just my ideas though given what I have seen so far, I'm sure they will work classic jobs like thief and red mage in, but I am thinking it's going to be at least the second expansion before they get to those.

[Nahara]

I object to the idea of Thief being a class and not a job with it's own soul crystal.

Thief is one of the most well-known and classic jobs in the whole franchise (going all the way back to FF1) and I'd hate to see it get relegated to something most people don't care about once they hit Lv30.

[Exstal]

I object to the idea of Thief being a class and not a job with it's own soul crystal.

Thief is one of the most well-known and classic jobs in the whole franchise (going all the way back to FF1) and I'd hate to see it get relegated to something most people don't care about once they hit Lv30.

FF1 Thief => Ninja

Ok.

[Nahara]

FF1 Thief => Ninja

Ok.

And? That doesn't make Paladin/Knight any more of a job than Warrior. And what about White Wizard? Does that have any right to be more of a job than White Mage?

Just because Thief graduated into Ninja in FF1 doesn't mean Thief doesn't deserve to be a job in XIV and have it's own soul crystal.

[Kitru]

I object to the idea of Thief being a class and not a job with it's own soul crystal.

And I object to the idea that THF has enough to differentiate itself from NIN to justify it being a job instead of a class. The entire THF schtick has always been "Steal", which, in a single player game like the FF games have historically been, was enough to make it on par with the other jobs. Of course, in those games where THF and NIN are discrete jobs, NIN is pretty much always, in some way, shape, or form, the upgraded THF (NIN has the same general stat allocation, only with better stats; NIN, in those games where classes actually do the upgrade thing, THF *always* leads into NIN). In an MMO, however, "Steal" isn't really an appreciable shtick that you could build a job upon, especially since the job abilities are meant to be secret techniques. "Steal" isn't really a secret technique; Ninja magic, on the other hand, *is*.

The classes that we've currently got are iconic enough that they need to be jobs instead of classes *and* they need to exist to provide appreciable options to cover multiple themes. BLM and WHM make sense as jobs instead of classes because jobs are the "end point" and, historically, there hasn't really been an upgrade from BLM or WHM that doesn't turn it into something with a completely different spell list (Black Wizard/White Wizard were pretty much just WHM/BLM with better stats but, even so, pretty much the same name). WAR exists as a job separate from PLD because there needs to be multiple tank classes, one of which *doesn't* have the religious overtones like the PLD and that uses a completely different weapon/combat style: WAR is the pure martial tank while PLD is the divine tank (that and the two exist as discreet archetypes within MMOs for much the same reason).

THF is iconic but it's always been something that often just gets folded up into the NIN. NIN is *just* as iconic. The difference between the two is that NIN pretty much *always* THF+, and it's consistent across most of the games. It's because of *this* that I did THF>NIN.

[Kitru]

And? That doesn't make Paladin/Knight any more of a job than Warrior. And what about White Wizard? Does that have any right to be more of a job than White Mage?

White Wizard doesn't exist because it's just WHM with a different name to constitute the upgraded stats/access to more powerful spells. Hell, it's still got the whole "White" portion exactly the same. It's, for all intents and purposes, the exact same archetype. Warrior exists separately from Paladin because they *are* different archetypes: Paladin always has some magical influence while Warrior never does.

Just because Thief graduated into Ninja in FF1 doesn't mean Thief doesn't deserve to be a job in XIV and have it's own soul crystal.

The reason that it doesn't "deserve" to be a job is that THF and NIN are the same exact archetype: they're the stealthy, backstabby archetype. NIN might have some minor mystical associations, but, honestly, they're really not that different.

[Nahara]

In an MMO, however, "Steal" isn't really an appreciable shtick that you could build a job upon, especially since the job abilities are meant to be secret techniques.

You don't think thieves and pickpockets have tricks they don't share with the amateurs?

That said, "Steal" isn't the only thing Thief has going for it. I know people don't like the idea of pulling ideas from FFXI, but it can still be used as a good basis for how different Thief and Ninja can be.

In addition to Steal and Mug, they had Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, which gave THF huge burst damage potential, they had Accomplice and Collaborator to help manage a party's threat generation, with Larceny and the Aura Steal passive they could steal an enemy's buffs, and everyone knows about Treasure Hunter and Gilfinder. On top of that, THF was one of the best dagger-wielders in the game, giving them access to the best and most damaging dagger weapon skills in the game. As I said in my previous post, just because THF graduated into NIN in FF1 (and a couple of the tactics games, which I've admittedly never played), doesn't mean that it must also graduate into NIN here.

All in all, I respect your idea and think it's pretty decent (even if I'm not a fan of putting the healer into melee range). I just don't want to be a Ninja; I want to be a Thief and I don't like the idea of Thief being forced into being the base class for Ninja.

EDIT: Also, your DNC idea lacks an in-combat raise/resurrection. Healers really need to have one.

[LadyVaJedi]

How about a new a class called rouge and that could going into thief or dancer and then with the pug going into monk or ninja. There problem solved

[jomoru]

FF1 Thief => Ninja

Ok.

and FF1 Warrior becomes Paladin.