Is asking a tank to use his enmity+ buff rude?

[Lecan]

Occasionally while healing WP or AK I'll run into a tank that doesn't use his enmity modifier (Shield Oath or the Axe buff thingy for Warriors) resulting in threat going directly to me. I do try to hold back, but there's only so much healing I can put off before people start to be in danger. However, when I ask (something along the lines of 'please use your threat skill'), half the time the tank or one of the DPS will either throw a fit or just drop. I understand wanting to do more damage to get through the dungeon faster and I understand trying to challenge yourself, but I don't want every trash pull in dungeons I overgear (not significantly as you can see on my Lodestone) to be a constant struggle due to someone else not playing as expected.

Am I being rude? Is there a 'good' way to ask someone to change what they are doing to make my dungeon runs a little easier?

[Skull_Angel]

If they are unable to secure hate w/o the buff they should definitely turn it on. Otherwise it's kind of up to the healer; if they're taking mass damage that is hard to manage w/o the buff up, they probably should be using it.

[NeonC]

Level the tank classes first, get an understanding of them then offer advice imo.

[Lucavern]

At least for PLD, if they don't have any Oath on chances are they recently changed jobs, died, or did some action that took off their Oath and forgot/didn't notice to put it back on. I've found myself doing that more than I'd like to admit. Personally I read "please use your threat skill" as something very different than you intend without additional context. I would instead ask them to turn on their tanking stance.

Now, if your group IS overgearing the content, there is little reason to use the tank stance (at least for PLD, can't speak for WAR). When I run AK with friends/FC I never run with Shield Oath anymore, it is Sword Oath the entire run. Never have any threat issues either, unless dps are being stupid. However, when your group is overgearing the content, a dps can easily take a number of hits if they pull hate. If I am doing WP speed-runs, I'll use ShieldOath on the trash pulls, and as soon as we are at the boss switch to Sword Oath.

Hell, I'd personally use Sword Oath for any current content other than Coil and MAYBE Titan, depending on the healer(s). This statement only applies if you and your group are overgearing the content, and does not apply if you are at the current contents gear level (I.e. AF/AK gear while running AK).

[DancingEdge]

Occasionally while healing WP or AK I'll run into a tank that doesn't use his enmity modifier resulting in threat going directly to me. I do try to hold back, but there's only so much healing I can put off before people start to be in danger. I understand wanting to do more damage to get through the dungeon faster and I understand trying to challenge yourself, but I don't want every trash pull in dungeons I overgear to be a constant struggle due to someone else not playing as expected.

Am I being rude?

I play both jobs as main (war and pld) and I think its dumb to go throught a dungeon without oath or defiance up, ppl doing so are either trolling around or are stupid, why? because nor WAR or Plds are dps at the moment, if you want to go faster in the run change your strat and tank many mobs at same time so dps go nuts but pretending you're 1 its just dumb.

[Lecan]

Thanks for the responses. I do now see the difference between asking about a skill and a stance, so maybe that's why it was taken as rude.

[Gamemako]

Occasionally while healing WP or AK I'll run into a tank that doesn't use his enmity modifier (Shield Oath or the Axe buff thingy for Warriors) resulting in threat going directly to me...

The net enmity boost from these stances, after accounting for the damage reduction, is 20% for PLD and ~15% for WAR (depending on average number of Wrath stacks). If your tank is unable to keep aggro without the tank stance, it is unlikely to keep aggro with the tank stance. The stance is only necessary from an enmity standpoint if your DPS heavily outgear your tank. With Defiance, I can keep aggro against anything but a bad WHM with ilvl55 gear -- that includes all relic+1 MNK and SMN (had to do it with a really bad SMN who wouldn't control his pet the other day and kept attacking the last mob first). Bad WHM are a hopeless cause, though. I hate having to babysit the healer by removing Regen after every group of mobs because the WHM keeps dumping it back on at the end.

Now, if the tank isn't using the tank stance, you should speak up. Even if the tank intends to use it, he might simply not notice, especially if it's PLD and has no additional cues to hint that he's forgotten it.

Now, if your group IS overgearing the content, there is little reason to use the tank stance (at least for PLD, can't speak for WAR). When I run AK with friends/FC I never run with Shield Oath anymore, it is Sword Oath the entire run.

At the risk of derailing this thread somewhat, I would like to expand on this slightly. PLD especially should use Shield Oath even when outgearing content. Additional healer DPS will absolutely crush the potential gain from using Sword Oath in most cases, and the damage-free nature of your AoE enmity makes Shield Oath even more useful. Against bosses, yes, you will often see gains from using Sword Oath. There's no way the WP Goobbue or jelly are going to put out enough damage to tax the healer -- the jelly requires no healing at all beyond Regen or the fairy as long as you're walking past the Fire and DPS are wiping out the adds before they debuff.

[Lucavern]

At the risk of derailing this thread somewhat, I would like to expand on this slightly. PLD especially should use Shield Oath even when outgearing content. Additional healer DPS will absolutely crush the potential gain from using Sword Oath in most cases, and the damage-free nature of your AoE enmity makes Shield Oath even more useful.

I disagree, but it depends on the party. For my friends/FC groups, the healer is usually overgearing the content as well and has no issue DPSing and healing while I'm in Sword Oath. If I am in a random pug/DF group, I will start out in Shield and gauge the group. If the group seems to handle themselves alright, I'll switch to Sword and help wreck face.

[Disrupter]

No, it isn't rude, it is essential. Quite often they have just forgotten to put it up, however. People can be pretty touchy about their feelers on the internet though.

[Bayman]

its not rude to ask, but it is rude to tell. Sometimes its all about damage. BUT, if I leave defiance up, it leaves the healer more of a window to dps...