New Inner Beast DR.. the end all be all skill

[Soulburn32]

There is no healing bonus with Defiance.

Warrior Changes
Defiance
- Enmity generated by this skill will be increased.
- This skill will also increase HP recovery via curing magic by 20%.

It will after 2.1 which is what this thread is about.........

[Paikis]

It will after 2.1 which is what this thread is about.........

OK, and now read the part where they removed this same bonus from Wrath stacks. You wont have to look very hard, its on the next line down.

[Soulburn32]

OK, and now read the part where they removed this same bonus from Wrath stacks. You wont have to look very hard, its on the next line down.

So like i said you will have a constant 20% Healing bonus as Defiance will always be active when your tanking.

[Paikis]

So like i said you will have a constant 20% Healing bonus as Defiance will always be active when your tanking.

Yeah, and it should be 25% just to break even with the effect of Shield Oath. Hopefully the self-healing we have will make up the difference.

[Kitru]

Yeah, and it should be 25% just to break even with the effect of Shield Oath. Hopefully the self-healing we have will make up the difference.

And if it did that, they might as well just get rid of the +hp and +healing on it entirely and turn it into a clone of Shield Oath. There's isn't any difference between 25% +hp and +healing and 20% DR, which isn't the same as "a class needs to have 25% +hp/+healing in order to be balanced against a class with 20% DR". There are other mitigation mechanisms that WAR gets that make up for that little cushion, like the +healing on Inner Beast (which, even if it's smaller, is still going to be present) and Bloodbath. It's not going to amount to *much* but it's enough to make up for the fact that WAR will have 20% +healing instead of the 25% that it would require for Defiance to match Shield Oath completely.

[Zoomie]

SNIP

Basically this. The big difference, other than the 5% buff, for our incomig healing will be having the +healing tied to defiance instead of wrath stacks. Prior to this change losing that 15% + healing during a damage intensive fight was a detriment even with the IB healing.

[Paikis]

And if it did that, they might as well just get rid of the +hp and +healing on it entirely and turn it into a clone of Shield Oath.

Except it isn't the same thing at all. We have abilities which work based on our max HP. Yes, +25 health/healing received has the same effect as 20% DR, but they do it in a different way.

Either way, why would that be a bad idea? Then the two tanks could start from the same area. Paladin still gets better cooldowns in general, and better damage reduction over time. Warrior are better for a single large attack on a 20 second timer, anything that has large amounts of continuous incoming damage (turn 4 says hi!) is going to vastly favour Paladins. The miniscule amount of self healing WAR has left (and lets not forget that Bloodbath and LOLMercy Stroke are cross class abilities) after Inner Beast is gutted is not going to make up for that difference in healing received, and that's before we even start on Enhanced Convalescence or a semi-spammable Stoneskin.

So yes, I do think that it should be +25%.

EDIT: Please for the love of god will you people stop saying that the loss of the healing bonus is not worth the healing from IB? The cases where this is true are so ridiculously rare that I'm amazed this myth is still touted as a fact.

[Anyer]

First of all, I play both PLD and WAR. I don't know why lot of people keep comparing the skills of both and saying things like "this needs to be buffed so it is like XXXXX skill of PLD".

If both classes have all their skills do the same thing but with different names, then what is the pout of having 2 jobs? Just delete one and problem solved, not make one the clone of the other with different names....

WAR was fine, the only thing it needed was a bit of mitigation added to lets say, defiance, not as much as the PLD obviously cause the hp increase, but just a bit and everything could be working good.

I hope they don't become just clones of each other or that one became so op that the other is forgotten or worst, that we enter the classic "QQ my class sucks and you buffed the other" then that classes get buffed and the other nerfed, the other class QQ again and so on in an endless nerd/buff rain of patches.

[Kitru]

Except it isn't the same thing at all. We have abilities which work based on our max HP. Yes, +25 health/healing received has the same effect as 20% DR, but they do it in a different way.

You're not really a "math" kind of person, are you? Any effect that provides a benefit based upon max hp provides the *exact* same benefit for someone getting 25% +hp/healing as someone getting 20% +DR. The effects aren't additive; they're multiplicative so anything that is based off of max hp has identical effects.

Then the two tanks could start from the same area.

Except that the tanks don't need to *start* from the same place. They need to *end* in the same place, which increasing Defiance from 20% to 25% wouldn't do.

EDIT: Please for the love of god will you people stop saying that the loss of the healing bonus is not worth the healing from IB? The cases where this is true are so ridiculously rare that I'm amazed this myth is still touted as a fact.

Considering that IB ends up being overheal 90% of the time, yeah, it's wasted. The only time that IB is *ever* appreciably useful on content that *isn't* a complete joke is when it and all of the heals you get within the next GCD or two are without any overheal. Healing yourself for 2000 doesn't matter when you'd have been healed for all of the damage you just healed yourself for in the next GCD or two in the first place. And we're not even going to get into how it doesn't scale so high damage scenarios turn it into a joke.

[Megido]

And if it did that, they might as well just get rid of the +hp and +healing on it entirely and turn it into a clone of Shield Oath. There's isn't any difference between 25% +hp and +healing and 20% DR, which isn't the same as "a class needs to have 25% +hp/+healing in order to be balanced against a class with 20% DR". There are other mitigation mechanisms that WAR gets that make up for that little cushion, like the +healing on Inner Beast (which, even if it's smaller, is still going to be present) and Bloodbath. It's not going to amount to *much* but it's enough to make up for the fact that WAR will have 20% +healing instead of the 25% that it would require for Defiance to match Shield Oath completely.

Sorry but do you actually think Twintania cares if you pop Bloodbath?