Why don't they realise yet? Stat-based combat systems aren't fun!

[Dreadnought]

stat based combat is the bees knees in my opinion, the OP can go play hello kitties island adventure if he doesnt like stat based combat because ALL MMOs use stat based combat as far as ive ever seen.

[TirionCrey]

It's a game in which you fight mobs. There is maybe a hand full of games in the world, in which you fight mobs that are not stat based. It's always about maximizing the performance of your character by collecting the best piece of gear possible.

Since this is an MMO, its even more important here, cause it's what makes the game last, you need something to work for, need something that makes you feel like you accomplished something or get rewarded for.

If XIVs battle system wouldn't rely on stats at all, it would fail in a blink of an eye. As far as I agree with it not being as stupid as WoW, where you pretty much start from scratch every 5-6 months new raid content comes out, which makes all your previous effort in vain, I'd be in favour of something like in XI, where you worked for a piece of gear and it was actually good and useful to have for years, not months!

[Vesperia]

Some people are just weird that way I guess.

Maybe you guys just really like refilling HP bars and managing math equations instead of fighting. Funny they are revamping the combat system when it's quite obvious they needn't bother.

They should just give us an HP bar to refill and an algebraic equation to factorise. Could have saved them seven months of work.

[Renshi]

Some people are just weird that way I guess.

Maybe you guys just really like refilling HP bars and managing math equations instead of fighting. Funny they are revamping the combat system when it's quite obvious they needn't bother.

They should just give us an HP bar to refill and an algebraic equation to factorise. Could have saved them seven months of work.

Whoa, easy there! When talking about tastes, stating that what you like is what everybody should like is an outragedy for everyone.
And by the way: Stats != Refilling HPs. Stats = what your character is capable of without a class.
Your character can deal high damage,
Your character can substain more damage with its body and HPs,
Can avoid hits and being able to swift and cause critical wounds,
Can deal high magical damage, and other pretty things.

Now, if that doesn't sound like RPG, then you can kick me in the butt. If that does sound like RPG and you still kick me in the butt, I'll punch your vocal chords so you'll squeal like a pig for eva.

[Vesperia]

Whoa, easy there! When talking about tastes, stating that what you like is what everybody should like is an outragedy for everyone.
And by the way: Stats != Refilling HPs. Stats = what your character is capable of without a class.
Your character can deal high damage,
Your character can substain more damage with its body and HPs,
Can avoid hits and being able to swift and cause critical wounds,
Can deal high magical damage, and other pretty things.

Now, if that doesn't sound like RPG, then you can kick me in the butt. If that does sound like RPG and you still kick me in the butt, I'll punch your vocal chords so you'll squeal like a pig for eva.

My point wasnt that stats shouldnt exist. My point was combat shouldnt be soley about refilling HP bars and balancing enmity equations. It's so mathematical. And this is what I mean when I say 'stat-based combat'.

Stats should play a role but they shouldnt mean more than our actions. Players' actions and reactions should mean more than our stats do.

Also, instead of juggling 'Provoke' and 'Taunt' to manage a mob's 'hate', a fighter should have to use more cunning and actions to defeat the opponent. If all you're doing is managing a hate-equation it's hardly combat.

All in all, I dont know why you guys are so thrilled by such a system.

[Renshi]

My point wasnt that stats shouldnt exist. My point was combat shouldnt be soley about refilling HP bars and balancing enmity equations. It's so mathematical. And this is what I mean when I say 'stat-based combat'.

Stats should play a role but they shouldnt mean more than our actions. Players' actions and reactions should mean more than our stats do.

Also, instead of juggling 'Provoke' and 'Taunt' to manage a mob's 'hate', a fighter should have to use more cunning and actions to defeat the opponent. If all you're doing is managing a hate-equation it's hardly combat.

All in all, I dont know why you guys are so thrilled by such a system.

uh... can't understand you there.

I mean, Stats don't involve emnity or actions (maybe Attack potency), as your skill in combat are even more important. But you know, for a Tank having high defense is very important, as for an Offensive Mage having lots of MPs and Magic Attack, but a Tank also has to manage emnity of the enemies, or the party is screwed, like the Offensive Mage has to cast the right spells and DoT (Damage over Time) in order to make things smoother.

Yeah, the algorithmic might be hard to understand, but a player doesn't have to do complicated calculations.
Higher Defense = Absorb more damage; Higher Dexterity = Avoid more hits and crit more.
I don't think it's rocket science.

[Nikita]

My point wasnt that stats shouldnt exist. My point was combat shouldnt be soley about refilling HP bars and balancing enmity equations. It's so mathematical. And this is what I mean when I say 'stat-based combat'.

Stats should play a role but they shouldnt mean more than our actions. Players' actions and reactions should mean more than our stats do.

Also, instead of juggling 'Provoke' and 'Taunt' to manage a mob's 'hate', a fighter should have to use more cunning and actions to defeat the opponent. If all you're doing is managing a hate-equation it's hardly combat.

All in all, I dont know why you guys are so thrilled by such a system.

Reminds me of... you guessed it.... TERA! Where hitting the monster/dodging the monster isn't a dice roll! You have to aim at it and move out of the way. Of course, there are still stats that have an effect on your character such as HP and DEF and healing potency, but it's more about your skill than what gear you've acquired.

Unfortunately, something like that would require quite a massive overhaul with what we have now and are getting later as a combat system. Unless you had something in mind, I can't really see how they would fit this in.

[Vesperia]

Reminds me of... you guessed it.... TERA! Where hitting the monster/dodging the monster isn't a dice roll! You have to aim at it and move out of the way. Of course, there are still stats that have an effect on your character such as HP and DEF and healing potency, but it's more about your skill than what gear you've acquired.

Unfortunately, something like that would require quite a massive overhaul with what we have now and are getting later as a combat system. Unless you had something in mind, I can't really see how they would fit this in.

Well even the original Mabinogi (the F2P game) employed something like I suggested. If you were using a shield, you would have to actively block with it. And if you were too slow you would get hit much hader. We have a very diluted version of this in FFXIV. And they probably intend to dilute it further.

TERA is at the extreme of the spectrum. Blade & Soul is a slight step down, and then the original Mabinogi is a slight step further, and then FFXIV/WoW are at the very far opposite end of the spectrum where it's basically like you're just standing there managing HP/enmity bars.

[Nikita]

Well even the original Mabinogi (the F2P game) employed something like I suggested. If you were using a shield, you would have to actively block with it. And if you were too slow you would get hit much hader. We have a very diluted version of this in FFXIV. And they probably intend to dilute it further.

TERA is at the extreme of the spectrum. Blade & Soul is a slight step down, and then the original Mabinogi is a slight step further, and then FFXIV/WoW are at the very far opposite end of the spectrum where it's basically like you're just standing there managing HP/enmity bars.

Ahh! ^_^ I've never played that, but it sounds like a cool mechanic (tanking). In TERA, you have to actively block (as a lancer), but at the same time, you have to hold hate off your other party members so you can't just hold the shield down all day, you have to weave in attacks between blocking.

How did that game handle healing and damaging classes?

[Vesperia]

Ahh! ^_^ I've never played that, but it sounds like a cool mechanic (tanking). In TERA, you have to actively block (as a lancer), but at the same time, you have to hold hate off your other party members so you can't just hold the shield down all day, you have to weave in attacks between blocking.

How did that game handle healing and damaging classes?

I never really played with a group in Mabinogi. I only ever duoed so I'm no expert on the game mechanics. But I think FFXIV doesnt need to go so far as to create the game around a CoD-style skillset like TERA. It just needs to not be so boring!

I would welcome a system like Blade&Soul where the ineraction with the character models (hit boxes) and the interaction with the environment are important factors just as much as "how strong one's stats are".