monk optimisation

[Allyrion]

What's an ideal way to start boss?

Did you just ignore me? D=
I answered you directly above!

For perfect balance I read different opinions on the use of it. It can be used at the beginning to stack up to GLIII, or use it once u have GLIII to spam snap punch. If possible can someone clarify which one is better option to do?

It's a good question. I can't give you a straight answer myself.
I used to really favor using it as a dps CD but I'm on the other side of the fence now.
The reason? Spamming Snap Punch too much will wipe your buffs (other than GL3 of course) and you may end up doing less dps in the long run because of it.
Using Dragon Kick after PB will not give you the debuff (or refresh it if it's already on) and Twin's buff will run out if you don't include it in your PB rotation.
Twin - SP x3 - DK can work as a dps cd AND keep all your buffs running, but you compromised two GCDs for the buff and it looks less attractive as a CD.

On the other hand, using it as a starter saves at least 15 seconds of less than GL3 dps. That's pretty significant and I believe it's a bigger dps increase than using PB for burst.

However, it's not always better. The primal fights are a great example of where using PB to build GL3 seems pointless since they wipe your stacks fairly frequently when they jump away. In these cases, I believe using it as a burst CD is, in fact, better.

This is my burst rotation:
Dragon Kick (IR) ---> Twin Snakes (Blood for Blood) ---> Demolish (Steel Peak) ---> Touch of Death (Howling Fist) ---> Fracture
Dragon Kick ---> Twin Snakes ---> SP (Perfect Balance) ---> SP --> Twin --> SP --> Dragon Kick --> SP

Good for Titan's heart or Garuda after she summons the twins or whenever for Ifrit.

PB is like the most complicated thing the MNK has to optimize. People really undervalue the buffs because they are automatic in the standard rotation.
For PB, you have to be aware of it though. A Snap Punch without either DK or Twin's buff does around the damage of Twin Snakes while without just Dragon kick, it's around Dragon Kick's damage.
Not to mention, after a SP x 5 PB rotation, you will not have DK for a full cycle afterwards and you won't have Twin's buff for the DK or next Twin.

So those are things to keep in mind when deciding how to use it.

[Butcherb0y]

Srt about that ally my I replay back to my message but it was sent late.

That's something I need to try. But here's the thing. From what I read here before that using DK after PB applies te buff and rebuff. So why use it last on the PB phase? I like the idea of spreading howling and peak. I can see the use of IR and BfB separately since IR is useless with boot shine .

[Newbsauce]

PB can also be saved for a burst AOE situation, (phase 4 of turn 4 is the only time for this that i can think of)

so, pop PB after twin snake and Rockbreaker x 5

[Allyrion]

From what I read here before that using DK after PB applies te buff and rebuff. So why use it last on the PB phase?

I'm 100% sure what you read about DK applying the buff after PB is wrong. Can't see to find where that was said either.
After PB, you are stance-less and your DK doesn't apply the debuff. This is easy to test.
So yea, that's why.

[raikage]

I'm 100% sure what you read about DK applying the buff after PB is wrong. Can't see to find where that was said either.
After PB, you are stance-less and your DK doesn't apply the debuff. This is easy to test.
So yea, that's why.

Are you sure it does not work? I will have to go test because Arm of the destroyer work in PB and you're stance-less.

[raikage]

I just tested it PB let all debuff and buff work in all forms so if you PB do ts,snap,snap.DK.DM

[Allyrion]

I just tested it PB let all debuff and buff work in all forms so if you PB do ts,snap,snap.DK.DM

I said AFTER PB though.

EDIT:
To be clear, in PB you basically are in all the stances. *After* PB you have no stance (just like the start of any fight).
We were discussing the Dragon Kick directly after PB fades, which does not refresh the debuff.
This means that you need to include Dragon Kick in your PB rotation or you will lose the debuff before you can refresh it again.

[Zakard]

yes buff/debuff apply when you use PB but when the PB end,the next attack wont have any stances that why most use PB-twin-demo-snapx2-dragon kick (pb go down) and dragon kick again to start the stance again.

so yea there many way to use PB but there probably no *optimal one*.it depend of the situation.a long fight without to much risk to lose GL,using it as opener.primal fight with hight risk to lose GL,using it as burst.need hight dmg aoe like in T4,PB with spamming rock breaker.

opener:TOD-PB-twinsnake-demo-snapx2-dragon kickx2

burst:after reaching GL3,dragon (BfB) -twin (ir)-demo-fract-TOD-PB-spamming snap but this will make you lose twinsnake and DK so before PB end you could refreash both.

aoe burst:dragon kick-twin-bfb+IR-rockbreaker-howling fist-PB-spamm rock breaker.

that the way i see it.my burst rotation might need some work since i was using snapx5 before but yea....losing my twinsnake and DK so....need to test few thing,something like snapx3-twin-dk mabey

[Butcherb0y]

yeah i didnt mean to say after PB wears off. The discussion s here n the lodestone i just dont remember where to b exact, but ive been fallowing a lot of topic discussion about the mnk job and one ofr the particular discussion is the the talk about DK buff/debuff after PB(not after like wearing off, i mean when u press that PB botton, i guess i just stop saying after.)that u keep the buff. Iget the idea of doing DK last so that next DK will have the buff and debuff, but why not start PB>DK(buff/debuff will get activated)>SNAKE(buff)>SPx3>DM?

AS far as AOE Burst rotation that have 4+trash i do at the start:

IR/BFB>PB>Spam Rock Breaker>HF>AoD>Snake>RB, if not all dead i just spam AoD>Snake>RB.
On 3 to 4 trash i just do AoD>Snake>RB till its just 2 trash then back to basic DK>SNAKE>SNAP plz rate my AOE burst.