Temporary HP Tank

[Eightbit]

Two ways for this to work. One, the flat rate shield. Where every inner beast gives so much damage reduction upon use, which is exactly what SE is doing. Two the excess hp shield. Where any over heal from an inner beast becomes that shield, so that you use inner beast at full health and if it would give you 1k hp, it gives you a stone skin for 1k. That becomes useless pretty fast. First, you will never be sitting with banked hp for long, and in harder hitting fights it may never happen. It scales very poorly with progression, as in it will only scale when you improve not when your enemies do. Second, you will have to be 100% synchronized with your healer. You use IB too soon and suddenly a heal is wasted on top of not having that extra shield. Healers would also have to have rough ideas of how much of that shield you have banked at any given time to know how much to be ready to heal you for.

In short I just don't think it would work very well, and the given changes are by far better.

[Zoomie]

the given changes are by far better.

Basically this ^

Say you're tanking Titan, something everyone has to do at some point.

You use IB after land slide and Titan auto's you twice for 900 then Mountain Busters for 4000. With your IB idea you would at most have a shield for something like 1000 damage. So you still take 4800 damage because Titans first auto ate nearly the entire shield.

Now you have the 2.1 IB. You pop it and suddenly those 900's are 720's and that 4000 is a 3200 savings you from 1160 damage. This differency will only get larger as content scales.

[Paikis]

Basically this ^

Say you're tanking Titan, something everyone has to do at some point.

You use IB after land slide and Titan auto's you twice for 900 then Mountain Busters for 4000. With your IB idea you would at most have a shield for something like 1000 damage. So you still take 4800 damage because Titans first auto ate nearly the entire shield.

Now you have the 2.1 IB. You pop it and suddenly those 900's are 720's and that 4000 is a 3200 savings you from 1160 damage. This differency will only get larger as content scales.

Except my Inner Beasts are much larger than 1k. The change is a nerf on all content except turn 4 and 5. WAR gets really good with gear. People need to stop gearing and playing like a Paladin. Yoshi was right, most WARs need some L2P.

[Eightbit]

Except my Inner Beasts are much larger than 1k. The change is a nerf on all content except turn 4 and 5. WAR gets really good with gear. People need to stop gearing and playing like a Paladin. Yoshi was right, most WARs need some L2P.

It is a nerf only when the warrior is over geared for the content. Maybe at much lower levels, I guess, but I'd still say any level 50 dungeon paladin is better until over gearing it. To design around over gearing is a horrible idea. Your inner beasts have a cap based off your gear. Hypothetically, with both tanks having infinite hp and both in the same gear set, and your IB heals for 5k (far beyond what is possible). Boss hits you for 20 damage, paladin gets hit for 16, IB over heals you. Boss hits for 20,000 and you heal back 5k for a total of 15k damage, paladin takes 16k. Almost on par suddenly, now time to truly go over the top. Boss hits for 20 million, you heal for 5k for a total damage of 19,995,000, and paladin takes 16 million damage. Yes that is really extreme but that is the point.When a warrior cannot heal back more than 20% of the damage taken he is behind paladin.

Sorry warrior currently is just behind paladin mathematically. There is no magic play style or tricks to make up for that.

You misunderstand. What I'm talking about replaces all self-healing with shield generation. Using IB does not recover HP and is not affected by current HP. The shield generates independently, so you don't need to be at max health.

Obviously I don't have a complete picture of how this would work. I don't know if perhaps a buff or nerf to potency would be needed or what. I'm not proposing this option as a replacement to the current changes; as I said, my idea will never be implemented. I'm just throwing it out there to discuss for the giggly shits.

I think I follow. So instead of healing hp, it generates a shield say based off the damage done instead? If so, it still runs into the flaw that a flat percent mitigated is better in the long run over anything that is based of a fixed out put number.

[Exstal]

It is a nerf only when the warrior is over geared for the content. Maybe at much lower levels, I guess, but I'd still say any level 50 dungeon paladin is better until over gearing it. To design around over gearing is a horrible idea. Your inner beasts have a cap based off your gear. Hypothetically, with both tanks having infinite hp and both in the same gear set, and your IB heals for 5k (far beyond what is possible). Boss hits you for 20 damage, paladin gets hit for 16, IB over heals you. Boss hits for 20,000 and you heal back 5k for a total of 15k damage, paladin takes 16k. Almost on par suddenly, now time to truly go over the top. Boss hits for 20 million, you heal for 5k for a total damage of 19,995,000, and paladin takes 16 million damage. Yes that is really extreme but that is the point.When a warrior cannot heal back more than 20% of the damage taken he is behind paladin.

Sorry warrior currently is just behind paladin mathematically. There is no magic play style or tricks to make up for that.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Warrior is getting a buff and Yoshi doesn't tell you to L2P.

[Paikis]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Warrior is getting a buff and Yoshi doesn't tell you to L2P.

Actually Yoshi did say L2P, and he never retracted that statement, he merely said that PLD was too good and WAR was being bought up to that level.

[Gamemako]

Except my Inner Beasts are much larger than 1k. The change is a nerf on all content except turn 4 and 5. WAR gets really good with gear. People need to stop gearing and playing like a Paladin. Yoshi was right, most WARs need some L2P.

That simply isn't true. This is a nerf on mid-game content of Qarn through Stone Vigil or so. It's a buff on 5-stack Grudge even in fully-maxed DPS gear, and it's a very large buff on the people for whom the content was designed.

Actually Yoshi did say L2P, and he never retracted that statement, he merely said that PLD was too good and WAR was being bought up to that level.

Apparently, he figured that everyone would need full ilvl90 for Coil until PLDs did it in Darklight. He didn't say L2P, he pretty much threw everyone back in the fire until they had the gear to do it as intended without realizing that PLD didn't need it.

[Exstal]

Actually Yoshi did say L2P, and he never retracted that statement, he merely said that PLD was too good and WAR was being bought up to that level.

Except people know how to play Warrior now. If there was no issue, as per 2 WAR t5, then there would be no buff. However, since scaling issues are terrible for Warrior..well the rest we all know.

As for the first part: I disagree. WAR was supposed to be the self-heal soak tank, but it just doesn't work. That's why they're adding mitigation tools in the 2.1 patch to balance it. We don't think this because we are "enthralled by big numbers" as you say, it is because the WAR has self-healing abilities up the wazoo, and the +healing/+hp from Defiance (is there any damage reduction? and if so, was it always there from the start?) only further supports this.

How do you figure it was supposed to be a self-heal, soak tank?

You realize that every single one of Warrior skills revolves around Wrath stacks?

Defiance - Generate Wrath stacks, increase HP
Inner Beast - Requires 5 Wrath stacks (only job skill that recovers HP)
Unchained - Requires 5 Wrath stacks
Steel Cyclone - Requires 5 Wrath stacks
Infuriate - Instantly generate 5 Wrath stacks

You could make the argument that Marauder is supposed to be a self-heal class. Notice how they are putting DR on Vengance (akin to Magic Barrier on BLM) and Damage down on Storm's Path (akin to Rage of Halone) and further reduction on the job skill (Inner Beast)? This could be the foundation for making a melee DPS class out of MRD without being completely OP otherwise, put DR all over the place and call it a daty.

[ZenBear]

I think I follow. So instead of healing hp, it generates a shield say based off the damage done instead? If so, it still runs into the flaw that a flat percent mitigated is better in the long run over anything that is based of a fixed out put number.

Correct, and yes to an extent percent mitigation is better than fixed soak, but conceptually that is the difference between PLD and WAR. Paladins is the mitigation tank, Warrior is the soak tank. That's why I'm a bit concerned with the 2.1 changes adding so much mitigation to the Warrior.

[Eightbit]

Correct, and yes to an extent percent mitigation is better than fixed soak, but conceptually that is the difference between PLD and WAR. Paladins is the mitigation tank, Warrior is the soak tank. That's why I'm a bit concerned with the 2.1 changes adding so much mitigation to the Warrior.

True, and to an extent warrior is losing its "flavor" to be more paladin tasting. But at the end of it all, damage is damage and both have to deal with it. I'm a little sad to see the hp bit of warriors go, though it just isn't possible to really balance well in this set up right now. My stance now is that while both will become mitigation, their styles are pretty different on how they do it.