Updates: FFXI and FFXIV, a comparison

[Betelgeuzah]

But even still, the people who work on the Battle system should not be the same people who do the interface or create 3D Models. If you've got people multi-tasking as Jack-of-all-trades then no wonder this game is in such a bad state because joat employees suck.

Uhh...

There are separate people working on 3D models and people working on interface. No one is multitasking.

Do you not understand that all of these people are preparing the battle patch? Creating models and assets, designing AA GUI, developing the materia interface. Regardless of if there is a clear connection or not, these features can not be released before the feature it supports is ready.

And dear God, we have gotten UI improvements, new models and effect improvements during the last few months. What the hell is even your point?

Not only did they add Stamina they changed how attack works, changed action bar changed skill menus and during Alpha and Beta did several changes to how stat works regarding algorithms. I'd say about 6-7 updates worth of stat tweaking.

and "all" of it resulted in shit that needs to be changed yet again. Truly remarkable.

ffxi battle changed just as much in less time and they had many other changes going on at the same time

"Just as much"? XIV team hasn't even implemented the plethora of changes being prepared. XI team has nothing going on in parallel that would slow them down. Obviously they will get ahead until the XIV team is done.

[Physic]

...Why would we get new mobs without getting new areas?

because areas dont have enough monster variety already. why have we not gotten a cap increase? why is many gears currently in game unreleased, why did they have dungeons in game since alpha unreleased? exactly how long do you think it takes to create content? game is coming on 9 months its been out. in 9 months of ffxi, they were like 2 months from an expansion, and the still added more to actual game then we have gotten here, by far.

http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html

game came out without dlevel, different enimity, less classes, added jueno metalworks, northlands magic bursts, readjusted auto attack, balanced skills, added skills rebalances skills added tax, blah blah, they did way more in ffxi in less time is the point WAY more. they did just as much balancing of core algorithims, while releaseing content.

[Physic]

Uhh...

There are separate people working on 3D models and people working on interface. No one is multitasking.

Do you not understand that all of these people are preparing the battle patch? Creating models and assets, designing AA GUI, developing the materia interface. Regardless of if there is a clear connection or not, these features can not be released before the feature it supports is ready.

And dear God, we have gotten UI improvements, new models and effect improvements during the last few months. What the hell is even your point?



and "all" of it resulted in shit that needs to be changed yet again. Truly remarkable.



"Just as much"? XIV team hasn't even implemented the plethora of changes being prepared. XI team has nothing going on in parallel that would slow them down. Obviously they will get ahead until the XIV team is done.

look at the changes man, they changed many core battle things, auto attack algorithims among them, dlevel, accuracy, skill chains magic bursts, all while releasing actual content.

[Betelgeuzah]

look at the changes man, they changed many core battle things, auto attack algorithims among them, dlevel, accuracy, skill chains magic bursts, all while releasing actual content.

They changed specific elements of existing features, they did not remake them from the very beginning. There was no need to develop in parallel (although there was a need to develop in accordance to other features already in place).

The difference is still like night and day.

And to whoever said the economy is not going to be changed... lol.

They are essentially shifting the item acquisition methods from crafting-based to quest- and other NPC specific methods, while using the materia system to keep crafters and gatherers relevant in an economy where items are obtained elsewhere. Materia system also removes excess items from the economy.

The economy could hardly change any more than this.

But there is no devtag for "economy rehaul" so it can't be true LOL.

[Elexia]

because areas dont have enough monster variety already. why have we not gotten a cap increase? why is many gears currently in game unreleased, why did they have dungeons in game since alpha unreleased? exactly how long do you think it takes to create content? game is coming on 9 months its been out. in 9 months of ffxi, they were like 2 months from an expansion, and the still added more to actual game then we have gotten here, by far.

http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html

game came out without dlevel, different enimity, less classes, added jueno metalworks, northlands magic bursts, readjusted auto attack, balanced skills, added skills rebalances skills added tax, blah blah, they did way more in ffxi in less time is the point WAY more. they did just as much balancing of core algorithims, while releaseing content.

I played XI since the JP beta, I recall the layout and the revisions it went through. However, throughout all of XI's history new enemies came with typically new areas same with most MMOs out today. You rarely see them plop new enemies in old zones unless it's linked to a quest or a Pet for example in Rappelz.

[Ava]

Make the 3D Model then come battle overhaul you can add the stats, or hell just add what you know will work and tweak it like every other armour will get.

Just because stats will have to be changed does not mean you cannot make the piece, the 3D model and show it to us. What does a battle system have anything to do with Chocobos? Or a Mail System or LS controls or Airships?

Most of that stuff (the art) is probably already created, it's just not in the live client yet because there's no point. Why show the community everything several months in advance? Where's the fun in that?

And mail system/LS controls probably tie in with the awful programming they need to fix. Chocobos I don't know, it sounds like they don't want them to be just a boring mount system and haven't really settled on a decision yet.

[Silverware]

Omg guys I've been sitting around on the internet complaining and whining that I want my big purple elephant monster!

Where is it?! What have they been doing all this time? Never seen any company so lazy and not listen to their customer base.. I'm the one paying them!

/sarcasm

[Physic]

They changed specific elements of existing features, they did not remake them from the very beginning. There was no need to develop in parallel (although there was a need to develop in accordance to other features already in place).

The difference is still like night and day.

And to whoever said the economy is not going to be changed... lol.

They are essentially shifting the item acquisition methods from crafting-based to quest- and other NPC specific methods, while using the materia system to keep crafters and gatherers relevant in an economy where items are obtained elsewhere. Materia system also removes excess items from the economy.

The economy could hardly change any more than this.

But there is no devtag for "economy rehaul" so it can't be true LOL.

they arent remaking battle from the ground up, that would be like making the battle like tera or something. They are adding auto attack, and changing the damage algorithim, and removing stamina. Its not that hard, they are slow, apparently going by the letter from the producer, they have a lengthy analysis time, then they move to implementation. Im guessing he plans more carefully that whoever planned ffxi.

However careful isnt allways the best solution.

Looking back now at ffxi method, which was full of stops and starts and readjustments, its probably a better system in terms of getting a lot of changes done fast, that will lead to a stronger game. In ffxi model, they may have had to fix ls 3 times by now, but it would have been fixed by now.

Id say its probably too much planning and hesitation, but lets give it about 2 more months, with a reckless do it now and fix it later attitude ffxi came a long way in 11 months, lets see how far this game will get in that time.

[Betelgeuzah]

they arent remaking battle from the ground up, that would be like making the battle like tera or something.

Made-up definitions, yay!

I don't give a damn what your own personal definition of rehaul is, and your list of the changes isn't even half accurate on top of it. Way to go.

Like I said, the XI model and XIV model are not even close to being similar in any shape or form.

[Physic]

Made-up definitions, yay!

I don't give a damn what your own personal definition of rehaul is, and your list of the changes isn't even half accurate on top of it. Way to go.

Like I said, the XI model and XIV model are not even close to being similar in any shape or form.

you are just in argumentive defense mode right now.

heres what it is, overhaul can mean whatever you want it to mean, but coming up with an algorithim for auto attack and implementing it, and taking out stamina is not a 6 month change. The man said in his letter himself, that most time is spent planning and analyzing cost, then getting the ok. They have not spent 6 months reworking battle, they spent 4 months thinking about what they wanted to figuring the cost and 1.5 months implementing it.

heres the point
FFXI used one style of updating, rapid updating, adjusting as they go sometimes redoing something
FFXIV used a style with a lot more planning cost analysis, approval of ideas, implementation testing etc

Ideally both styles will give at least equal results.

right now that is not even close to the case, but im willing to test this in 2 months, i think its enough of a sample size to compare the two methods.
even with the changes he has proposed for end of summer though, it still will not come close to the amount of changes and content outlined in that link. we can list the changes to this game to date in one paragraph, if they add one paragraph by september thats still only 2 paragraphs, compare that to ffxi. compare it to any other MMO, compare it to a game in development, or beta, in almost any comparison this games expected progress is behind other games in a 1 year cycle. this is not deniable.