[dev1075] Limit Breaks or Overdrive Mode

[ClashBlades]

First of all, there needs to be a distinction between using weaponskills more often, and saving up 5K TP for a limit break. Each method having certain advantages and disadvantages over the other. You can't just have it be a separate bar that fills up no matter what. Then, there's no reason NOT to use, it, and that doesn't foster good balance. It'll also lead to the limit breaks being overpowered.

Actually there is a reason not to use it. Just like there is a reason not to use a 2hr ability. You have to use it at the optimum time. You don't want to just use your incredible ability at any time. You want to use it when it is really needed. I want to emphasize that this bar does not charge swiftly. This is a slow charging bar that cannot be used every few minutes.

[Rentahamster]

Actually there is a reason not to use it. Just like there is a reason not to use a 2hr ability. You have to use it at the optimum time. You don't want to just use your incredible ability at any time. You want to use it when it is really needed.

That's just a reason to delay using it. You're still going to use it eventually, and there are no drawbacks to that - your overdrive is going to fill to max no matter what you do.

Essentially what you're proposing is a super meter like in Street Fighter. Ask yourself this - what has deeper gameplay?

Super Street Fighter - where your super bar fills up and you do a super move when you want

or

Street Fighter 4 - where your super bar fills up, and you have a choice of using up small chunks of it to execute EX special moves, or saving it all in order to execute a powerful super move - with each strategy having its own pros and cons, depending on the player's character, his opponent's character, and the individual playstyle of the player himself.

[ClashBlades]

That's just a reason to delay using it. You're still going to use it eventually, and there are no drawbacks to that - your overdrive is going to fill to max no matter what you do.

That's like saying there is no drawback to a 2hr ability. There is and there isn't a drawback, you won't have access to it for a long while. Don't take this the wrong way, but that's like saying all skills have no drawback. They take TP or MP just as the limit break move will take up that bar. I don't want you to think that I'm attacking you, but I honestly don't think that it is far different than a 2hr ability in terms of drawbacks. The ability uses up the entire bar. There are no increments on it.

Keep the creative ideas coming guys. Skill Ideas? Specifics about the implementation?

[Physic]

That's just a reason to delay using it. You're still going to use it eventually, and there are no drawbacks to that - your overdrive is going to fill to max no matter what you do.

Essentially what you're proposing is a super meter like in Street Fighter. Ask yourself this - what has deeper gameplay?

Super Street Fighter - where your super bar fills up and you do a super move when you want

or

Street Fighter 4 - where your super bar fills up, and you have a choice of using up small chunks of it to execute EX special moves, or saving it all in order to execute a powerful super move - with each strategy having its own pros and cons, depending on the player's character, his opponent's character, and the individual playstyle of the player himself.

this is a good point, but tp 5000 wouldnt be that long to get to, also the difference in SF4 is you still have access to your regular special attacks, if every special attack used tp, The move would have to be insanely godly to make up for not being able to do anything but auto attack for the entire time. Imagine SF if supers disappeared if you used any special attack.
Basically what your saying would be fine, if we had solid gameplay that didnt require tp, but seeing as how with AA we may get even less skills that dont require tp, it would seem to be a bad idea to tie it to tp.

My real problem with the tp 5k thing is, if it is good, no one will use the rest of their tp moves, if it is not good no one will ever use it. In that case it not being good is better, because playing with no tp use is fairly boring.

I look at an extra mechanic as a good thing, if its specific to class, gives different play mechanics to classes, much like in ffxi, bluemage, puppet and dancer played fundamentaly differently than other classes, whereas if you look at early ffxi, all DD were virtually the same playstyle. While they wouldnt have to build limits into that, it would be an interesting place to put it.

The thing to remeber with most FFXI limits is they existed to be used, the key was how you built it up, and when you used them. I think building it up can be an interesting game mechanic. Building up tp is not that interesting right now.

[Rentahamster]

this is a good point, but tp 5000 wouldnt be that long to get to, also the difference in SF4 is you still have access to your regular special attacks, if every special attack used tp, The move would have to be insanely godly to make up for not being able to do anything but auto attack for the entire time. Imagine SF if supers disappeared if you used any special attack.

Of course super bars don't disappear when you use special attacks. That is why the skill and resource management is a choice between EX specials VS. Super moves.

[Physic]

Of course super bars don't disappear when you use special attacks. That is why the skill and resource management is a choice between EX specials VS. Super moves.

exactly, but tp is just our special move bars, without using tp, we are essentially just auto attacking, even more so when they add AA, unless our basic attacks come back some how. Limits always used a different mechanic than basic special abilities/attacks.

[Rentahamster]

exactly, but tp is just our special move bars, without using tp, we are essentially just auto attacking, even more so when they add AA, unless our basic attacks come back some how. Limits always used a different mechanic than basic special abilities/attacks.

Yeah, I know, I was responding to the notion that:

TP = Super meter

Weapon Skills and TP-consuming abilities = EX Special Moves

Limit Break = Super Move

[ClashBlades]

So I think that we have come to a consensus that it would have to be an added/different mechanic. Do we have any ideas on how frequently the bar should charge? or the more fun question- What skills should each job/class get?