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  1. #1
    Player
    Kenji1134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    666
    Character
    Aleksandr Deicide
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    The only time it is somewhat justifiable to wait for a Firestarter proc is on the last Fire 1 of your fire cycle.

    Here's the issue. You cast your last F1, then immediately queue B3. F1 lands, you get a FS proc, but B3 now has about 0.5s left on its cast, which is the time interval where you can move without breaking a cast... So your B3 goes off. Now you do your regen cycle, and are now at full mana with 2-3 sec left on your FS proc.
    In this situation, your options are to use another B3 for 220 potency then F3 without the FS proc - perhaps leading into the double-F3 speed cast if you are good at it.
    Or you can use F3 with the FS proc while in UI3 (154 potency), saving you 0 casting time (fast-cast F3 from UI3 vs Instant from FS), and a whopping 133 mana.

    Now if you wait that extra half-second on the last F1 in your fire cycle, 40% of the time, you should get an extra F3 at 396 potency out of it.
    A single cycle takes roughly 22 seconds, lets say you are very unlucky with procs and it takes 20 seconds. So by adding an extra 0.5s to your 20s cycle, your dps is dropping by 20/20.5 = ~2.5%.

    The shorter cycle using the double-fast F3 trick has a net potency of roughly:
    154(B3 in AF3) + 395(Full T2) + 154(F3 in UI3) + 396(F3 in AF3) + 270x3 (F1 in AF3) = roughly 1909 potency in ~ 20 seconds, with no procs.
    This is ~95.5 potency/sec, so adding 0.5s to the cycle drops it to 93.1 pot/sec.
    By adding this 0.5s delay, we now have a 40% chance to get an extra 396 pot F3 into the cycle, adding ~2.5s to it.
    So 60% chance to have 1909/20.5 and 40% chance to have 2305/23 = 95.96 pot/sec average.

    So ~95.5 with no procs and spamming buttons, or 96 with the 0.5s extra delay. In this case it IS slightly beneficial to wait for an FS proc on the very last F1... but not every F1. Granted the gain is small, but as we get more procs and have longer average rotations, the dps penalty of the 0.5s delay will get smaller as well.

    I guess its a tossup... But uh, never wait on ALL F1s. Wait on the last F1, or none at all.
    (2)
    Last edited by Kenji1134; 12-13-2013 at 06:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Allyrion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,231
    Character
    Allyrion Windwalker
    World
    Yojimbo
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji1134 View Post
    In this situation, your options are to use another B3 for 220 potency then F3 without the FS proc - perhaps leading into the double-F3 speed cast if you are good at it.
    Or you can use F3 with the FS proc while in UI3 (154 potency), saving you 0 casting time (fast-cast F3 from UI3 vs Instant from FS), and a whopping 133 mana.
    Or you can B3 --> Thunder II --> (Transpose) F3
    Guess I'm not sold that double F3 is worth the mana.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Waliel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,153
    Character
    Waliel Hla
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Allyrion View Post
    Or you can B3 --> Thunder II --> (Transpose) F3
    Guess I'm not sold that double F3 is worth the mana.
    You lose an extra Fire and two potential FS procs with going double F3: 2xF3 + 3xF1 compared to F3 + 5xF1. You can get a fourth Fire with double F3 if your mana ticks align right and you have at least 248 Piety, but then you have to wait for mana for Thunder after B3.
    (0)
    Last edited by Waliel; 12-14-2013 at 02:19 AM.

    Yoshi-P is doing his best and is patching Endwalker. Please wait warmly until it is ready.

  4. #4
    Player
    Allyrion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,231
    Character
    Allyrion Windwalker
    World
    Yojimbo
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Waliel View Post
    You lose an extra Fire and two potential FS procs with going double F3: 2xF3 + 3xF1 compared to F3 + 5xF1. You can get a fourth Fire with double F3 if you mana ticks align right and you have at least 248 Piety, but then you have to wait for mana for Thunder after B3.
    Okay, so leaving out the F3 under Umbral for both and using Kenji's potency numbers.
    F1 x 5 (270 under AF3) = 1350 potency
    F3 (396 under AF3) + F1 x 3 = 396 + 810 = 1206 potency

    So now I'm really not sold, lol. The latter does have a notable time advantage, as it is like 2.5 seconds shorter. However, the above calculation does not even take the two extra potential Firestarter procs into account. Also, if you ever don't get the second quick cast, it's way behind.

    Thanks for checking how many casts you get per burn. I was being lazy.
    (0)