Gun Jumpers are so fun..

[Vortok]

It's beyond annoying that tanks don't have a good spike threat generation. But it's more annoying when DPS ignore that fact and go crazy right off the bat.

...

What annoys me the most is when they think it's a "tank problem", when they are the ones who aren't giving me any time to get my threat generation combo off.

I blame dps meters for this behaviour. If a dps player spends several seconds at the start of the fight standing around to let a tank get solid threat, their dps for the entire fight drops through the floor. They've all gotten used to always attacking as soon possible and never letting up the on the gas because otherwise they won't look as awesome on meters. If the dps check is that tight then okay, but it usually isn't and it feels like very few of them can be bothered to adjust based on the fight.

MMOs seemed a lot more chill before dps meters became a commonplace thing instead of something fairly niche. Probably wearing a rather strong pair of rose colored glasses, though. I wasn't exactly the most perceptive of the playerbase as a whole when I started MMOs.


The thing that annoys me most is that when I leveled BLM I paid attention to threat fairly consistently and would refrain from pulling if I could help it (also had some fun off healing when a healer died due to having Mind on my leveling gear, but that's a bit of a tangent). At cap though, everything is so piss easy due to everyone outgearing it by miles (plus the dungeon repetition) on top of stuff not hitting dps hard enough to matter even if you do pull, that I often find myself not even paying attention to threat when I get to play BLM. I'm literally getting worse at my class the more I play at 50. -.-

[Viridiana]

1. Look at your agro meter.
2. If you start Medica 2/Medica spamming I am going to let the mobs eat you.
3. No it doesn't, its just disruptive.

There's some validity to his logic. When I first started running AK, I would never pop buffs on the first mob of the pull. Most of the tanks I ran with wouldn't be able to hold off of me if I did, so I didn't. Now, with tanks getting better, I'm finding that I can pop more and more buffs without pulling aggro. I also get more of an idea what I can do to the bosses without issue by seeing how the trash pulls go with buffs running. I'd rather accidentally have a dullahan bashing my face in than I would accidentally spin the final boss.

Tank complacency is something I only mess with if they ask for it, though.

[Warrlordd]

If i see another dps pull off the tank i assume the tank will begin to target that mob which he has lost threat on. This helps some. Otherwise if I pull, well, I'm a dragoon i have the option to drop it or become a tank for a little bit. As an almost 50 PLD and a 50 WAR i have respect for how much of a P.I.T.A. to pick up those mobs.

[Parodine]

My favorite is when a Bard/Archer grabs hate and runs around...and also jumps around too? Wtf with the jumping? You look even more like a fool.

[Teleniel]

You can have bad tanks (can't keep hate, or can't keep AoE hate)
You can have bad healers (don't keep the tank at a safe-HP level while DPSing, even if it doesn't kill them)
You can have bad DPS (either bad rotation, or don't know how to watch threat meters)
Sometimes it's just bad RNG and they got too many procs (and used them all).

There is no need for anyone to run AWAY with a target, sure you might be able to solo kite it and kill it... but it's faster for everyone if we can just get hate settled. Come TOWARD the tank with it rather than going in circles jumpin around.

:: POV Tank ::
As a Tank I have my "usual" which is Lob (maybe mark) > Flash > Single Hate combo ... at this point if a DPS or healer has pulled hate they have done something wrong (cast a spell on me as I pulled, spiked the wrong target, or went buff/proc crazy).
Next I look at my off-target threat (do I need a flash/overpower?), and main target threat (do I need another hate combo?). If you pull hate here, I may have made a bad decision, but I *should* be able to get it back. If you CONSISTENTLY pull hate here, you need to adapt to the situation with the tank.
After I feel hate is set (target should be half dead, or 3-4 enmity combos in) as War I will finally get Maim put up. I may or may not have used other offensive cooldowns before this. If I lose hate doing this, my bad as a tank because I went for increased damage before I should have.
Once a target is at 75% or less, there is no reason I should lose hate (for more than 1 hit) without extreme circumstances. I will likely have switched to building threat on the next target, if I'm with 2 ranged DPS I may even be running off to the next pack while you finish the last enemy.

If you cast Regen / Medica II at the end of, or between fights, as a tank I really really hate you. I will try to remember to click it off but be mindful of the situation and that it actually warrants that kind of healing.

:: POV DPS ::
If I pull hate, it's probably something I did.
Did I use any enmity reducing skills I have (Quelling Strikes) WHILE doing my high enmity actions? If not then yeah that was me.
Did I use all my Cooldowns at once? yeah probably my bad, sure it's the best DPS right up until I die
Did I attack the wrong target? yup that's me
Did I use AoE/Single attacks when we're doing the other? yup that's me
Now if my DoT ticks on adds pulls hate, or basic combo with no skill procs or cooldowns up does... no that's a bad tank who needs to get things sorted.

If you just pulled hate on something... STOP GOING ALL OUT ON IT, either switch targets if possible or just slow down to let hate settle.

:: POV Healer ::
If I pull hate with Psysic / Cure 1 (and I'm only targeting people that lost health) that's a bad tank.
If I pull hate with DoTs on adds (and the tank has not gotten to a dangerous health level) that's a bad tank.
If I pull hate with Medica / Medica II spam ... WHY am I spamming?!
If I pull hate with Cure II spam... WHY am I spamming?!
If I pull hate with Regen/Stoneskin being cast while you pull ... yeah that's a bad healer.

Whm's should be using Shroud, in some fights that's ON-COOLDOWN regardless of the need for MP, in some fights it's at specific points where hate fluctuates (reset, new spawns). Know when to use it, and prepare for needing to slow-cure for a moment before you can burst again.
Sch's should be using Physic to conserve MP, and Aether stacks on cooldown. Cooldown almost up (energy drain), group damage incoming (sacred soil), Spike damage just hit (lustrate). Don't Aldoq someone who still has the shield (unless you're timing with enemy attacks). Don't forget to Rouse your fairy.



Everyone can do a little to make a big difference, part of succeeding at content is knowing your part in it. It's not always a tanks fault for losing hate sometimes they just can't generate it THAT fast. Sometimes it is their fault and they need to keep better awareness of the situation.

[Maxxsen]

I've got a macro for ppl pulling second grp or something else: "what u pull is urs"

[Simaril]

1. Look at your agro meter.
2. If you start Medica 2/Medica spamming I am going to let the mobs eat you.
3. No it doesn't, its just disruptive.

If I push my agro meter up, the tank might respond by generating more hate... or he might not be able to. How would I know whether he's capable of generating more threat if I don't push him??? Would you rather figure that out on a trash mob where I'm intentionally testing the limits or a boss where we wipe if I don't KNOW the limits???



If I never pull hate, how do I know how to interpret the aggro meter? How am I suppsoed to know what medica 2 will do to my agro meter if I've never tested it???

If I have a tank that can't maintain hate on multiple targets I'd rather find out on trash, than a wipe on a boss. If my DPS plus healing is enough to pull hate on a trash mob, then I know to be careful on a boss. I'm not saying you should do this every pull, but am I saying that intelligent tinkering is a great way to learn. I'd rather test my party before I get to the boss, than let the boss test the party and wipe multiple times before learning the party's limits. Ideally, I let the tank know that I may push him on purpose, and pick good places to do it, and he's cool with it...


I guess the botom line is; I'd rather figure out if threat is going to be an issue by intentionally pushing it a little on trash, than finding out that we have a problem on a boss.


I'm not saying I pull extra mobs, or jsut spam medica II, but I may be a little extra aggressive now and then to see what my tank can do

[Woggers]

Yeah I had one the other day where the BRD would attack whatever target he wanted. I mark my targets, WHM would sleep extra and before I know it BRD is attacking slept target. I get aggro back and while working on that BRD is now attacking another target so I lose hate on that one. Pretty sure he was trolling cuz once I got aggro back from the target he was originally attacking he would switch to another mob to peel that off me. Frustrating as hell, but it helped me understand my class better(was at Haukke at that time). So thanks whoever you were. Lol

[Simaril]

Yeah I had one the other day where the BRD would attack whatever target he wanted. I mark my targets, WHM would sleep extra and before I know it BRD is attacking slept target. I get aggro back and while working on that BRD is now attacking another target so I lose hate on that one. Pretty sure he was trolling cuz once I got aggro back from the target he was originally attacking he would switch to another mob to peel that off me. Frustrating as hell, but it helped me understand my class better(was at Haukke at that time). So thanks whoever you were. Lol

That's hilarious... only becaues I wasn't the one tanking ;p

I don't usually troll that hard, or if I do, I come right out an say it - "I want to see if you can keep threat while I spam cure II" or "I'm putting regen on you before the pull because I want to see how hard it is for you to get threat back"

[Masenken]

That's hilarious... only becaues I wasn't the one tanking ;p

I don't usually troll that hard, or if I do, I come right out an say it - "I want to see if you can keep threat while I spam cure II" or "I'm putting regen on you before the pull because I want to see how hard it is for you to get threat back"

Better to announce your intentions instead of just going off on your own like we're suddenly psychic and know you just want to test the waters.