[Discussion] The mechanics behind lockouts

[Xystic]

Overall, a loot restriction is going to have a minimal affect on game population.

Yes, based off the current drops, I feel that the restriction isn't too extreme. Its just in those special circumstances that it could be a frustrating.

[Ri_ri]

Snip

To be honest it seems that you're against liberty. If people want to leave, let them. Without character lockouts, a lot of options for replacement would be avaliable.

And you get locked out as soon as you enter a turn. So, to give you an example, I can't even try doing T4 because stepping a foot on it means I can't enter T2 anymore. Doesn't matter if I beat it or not.

[Wyyote]

Yes, based off the current drops, I feel that the restriction isn't too extreme. Its just in those special circumstances that it could be a frustrating.

That's fair. I agree it's not a big deal.

[Neo_Genesis]

My Idea: (This is solely for CT and any other new dungeon raids with the same system that might be added later.)

The first thing that comes to mind when reading the problems with the current loot-lockout after reading the cons is this:
After the loot drops for each boss (solely in the CT instance) the interface confirms that a particular person wins the lot.
However, all loot received for the entire dungeon will not appear in each specific players inventory until the final boss has been completed and the player leaves the instance.
Now, this has it's own set of pro's and con's.
Pro's:
-More players are more likely to remain in the instance and see it through to completion. (You feel more compelled to stay so that others, as well as yourself, get to receive loot at the end, creating a better sense of community.)
-A majority of the pre-made groups are going to either be same-server, same-linkshell, or same-free company.
-For the aforementioned Linkshell and FC parties (and perhaps even pre-built server parties,) this helps build a sense of "we need to finish this dungeon so player-x will receive his drop." So less people will actually drop from the party and leave the dungeon.
-Also, each boss drops a single chest on a per-party basis. Therefore, there will be no "loot jealousy" over a drop that goes to a different 8-man party. Actually, unless someone actually says something, the 16 other people outside of your group will not see what is dropped from your chest.
Con's:
-I can still see people who join through the duty finder, getting into a party with someone of the same class, lotting against said person, losing, and then leaving the dungeon just to grief the person who got the drop.
-However, I feel that should the party still succeed in completing raid after this occurs, it will not be a problem. 1 person missing out of 24 is not much.
-People randomly disconnecting or getting 90k error could prevent a group from finishing the content. However, as of patch 2.1, there will also be a afk-kick timer, d/c timer, and vote-to-kick put into place so this really shouldn't be a problem and I guarantee that plenty of people will be queuing up for "Party in Progress" for the myth bonus alone so replacing people won't be too hard either.
-The only other downside I can think of right now is people not being able to use the new drop they got while still in the dungeon. However, this is just part of the system and will be something to look forward to having once you have successfully completed the raid as a team.

If you think about it, in any regular RPG, you can go into a high-level dungeon and get all kinds of drops. However, if you don't actually clear the dungeon or find a save point before you die (which, as more tier's of content are added to this area, every individual "tier" where you leave and re-enter could be considered as a "Save Point,") you don't get to keep whatever you found on the way. The more I think about this, the more I like it.

[Axidrain]

well it seems that u guys are not familiar with loot drop systems. okay. so basically if we dont have lockouts we will have RNG % drop rates. right now there are CONFIRMED loot drops from every dungeon. The only ones having lockouts currently are the higher tiered instances. now, let's talk RNG % drop rates. let's say we have 10% loot drop chance from an instance boss, thats a 10/100 chance something will drop. and lets just say that in that instance, weapons will drop for all classes. that's a 10/100 chance to get a drop from the boss and a 1/9 chance it will drop your specific item on top of that. i dont see how this will be more fun.


so now currently we have myth gear, and we have a chance to get allagan drops every week and on top of that, CONFIRMED loot from CT before locking you out. i think those numbers are much better than the the % drop system. this system is much much more forgiving than having RNG % drops. i swear with no lockouts with the current drop system we have in the game right now, i would probably get every class of mine geared in ilevel 90 in a month. or probably even less.

[RynaultB]

I Think this is has kind of turned off topic in a sense. This discussion has more turned into morals of lockouts.

In truth the sole reason for Lockouts is not to prevent bad behavior but to extent said content. If we could go in willy nilly all day every day we could literally burn through the endgame content within a week and be fully geared.

That creates a problem for the Devs as they look at it with wide eyes thinking they just burned through 3 months worth of content in a week and its still more than 2 months til the next set of content gets put out.

This is nothing new to MMOs but it is to the FF series... mostly. FFXI had lockouts it was only a bit of the endgame content that was affected by it. But those were short times only a couple of days

Dynamis the biggest example, Einherjar, Nyzul was another as it could only be entered as many times as you had allowances which replenished every so often. There were others but not much.

KSNM/BCNMs were kind of a lockout but only in the sense of having the seals farmed which took time. Similar to Taper farming back in 1.0.

Overall, the purpose and original intent and use for Lockouts are to keep people coming each week and to extend the content til the Devs can create the next patch. Nothing more to it, its not any but that nor is it anything close to trying to define the natural of God or whether he exists or not.

Plain and Simple.

[RynaultB]

i swear with no lockouts i would probably get every class of mine geared in ilevel 90 in a month. or probably even less.

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

[Axidrain]

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

no i meant with the current loot drop system we have right now. no lockouts with current loot system is making things way too easy.

[Ri_ri]

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

Call me crazy but that's what I expect from a MMORPG, a huge time sink.

I don't mind other people getting ahead, if catching up doesn't means I have to wait so many weeks (simply wait, not try again if I'm up for it). The idea of everything, every new content or function, having a "timer" just to extend it scares me. It allows the developers to get lazy with the content. Just see Coil... that's a really poor excuse of a dungeon.

Having all the gear in the game won't matter if I can't run the dungeon anymore.

[meJojo]

Eight weeks of coils, never seen a single aiming piece drop.

Lock outs can suck my D.