[Discussion] The mechanics behind lockouts

[Freakiie]

No people can not do it now. They leave now and they still face a 1 week lockout.

Yesh people are leaving after bosses are down and if we remove lockouts they will simply be abusing it even further because nothing will deter them from not doing it.

People can be rude, yesh, look at yourself for example. Say what you want, do what you want. You feel like you can do anything because nothing is going to happen to you. When you know you can get punished or penalized for doing things you aren't suppose to, people are less motivated to do so. Is it 100% system, no but its better then your current logic which is no system at all and let people run rampant.

And your implying that you have found a better way to promote stability? I would like to know what system your comparing it to that makes you think this way. Logically you can't know if something is better then something unless you can compare it to something else. So what system are you referring to and comparing to that makes this one so instable versus yours?

We implement things like these to reduce the people who want to be jerks. Without things to deter people from doing things they want, they do it. We can never get rid of all of em, but we sure can swat quite a few of em.

Like I replied earlier to another poster who had the same thoughts as you.

Even with cops we have crime.

You feel with out cops its just the same.

In truth, thats not true.

Acting like these systems do nothing for us is just plain ignorance.

Do you even Coil? How is there a one week lock out if I leave? Of course I've been locked out of the content I've finished, but not the content I'm leaving from right now. Do you even know HOW these lockouts work? Because the more you post the more it seems you don't actually know what you're on about.

[Xystic]

Do you even Coil? How is there a one week lock out if I leave? Of course I've been locked out of the content I've finished, but not the content I'm leaving from right now. Do you even know HOW these lockouts work? Because the more you post the more it seems you don't actually know what you're on about.

The content locks you to that specific instance, most of them these days do it after a boss kill, and allows you to pick up where you left for the week. However, if we remove lockouts, we promote people to leave and just start over, farming bosses they only want. We totally deter the idea of having any static parties. People will do whats fastest to get gear and that is, going into content, killing the bosses you need, leaving and resetting.

What that means is, bosses that are of interest to you are not necessarily of interest to others. Therefore you can farm that boss to your hearts content but at the same time, your party may not feel the same. This results in you or people who feel like you to leave. For example I only need loot off the first two bosses, so I can just continuously farm them but my FC needs the last 3 bosses. Instead of wasting countless hours with them I can just pug my own for the first two bosses because their is no need for a FC that does not have similar interests as I do. I just chunked my free company and every single pug I will join. However, this now applies to every single individual. Is the FC in my Interest? Will I benefit any further with them?

With loot restrictions and a 1 week lockout. Once you go in, you have to be dedicated to those players. We deter this idea of leaving after the bosses you want with lockouts. Its not 100% efficient but its better then nothing.

Are you sure you know what your arguing about?

[Ri_ri]

Snip

To be honest it seems that you're against liberty. If people want to leave, let them. Without character lockouts, a lot of options for replacement would be avaliable.

And you get locked out as soon as you enter a turn. So, to give you an example, I can't even try doing T4 because stepping a foot on it means I can't enter T2 anymore. Doesn't matter if I beat it or not.

[Wyyote]

In truth, thats not true.

That's deep.

[Neo_Genesis]

My Idea: (This is solely for CT and any other new dungeon raids with the same system that might be added later.)

The first thing that comes to mind when reading the problems with the current loot-lockout after reading the cons is this:
After the loot drops for each boss (solely in the CT instance) the interface confirms that a particular person wins the lot.
However, all loot received for the entire dungeon will not appear in each specific players inventory until the final boss has been completed and the player leaves the instance.
Now, this has it's own set of pro's and con's.
Pro's:
-More players are more likely to remain in the instance and see it through to completion. (You feel more compelled to stay so that others, as well as yourself, get to receive loot at the end, creating a better sense of community.)
-A majority of the pre-made groups are going to either be same-server, same-linkshell, or same-free company.
-For the aforementioned Linkshell and FC parties (and perhaps even pre-built server parties,) this helps build a sense of "we need to finish this dungeon so player-x will receive his drop." So less people will actually drop from the party and leave the dungeon.
-Also, each boss drops a single chest on a per-party basis. Therefore, there will be no "loot jealousy" over a drop that goes to a different 8-man party. Actually, unless someone actually says something, the 16 other people outside of your group will not see what is dropped from your chest.
Con's:
-I can still see people who join through the duty finder, getting into a party with someone of the same class, lotting against said person, losing, and then leaving the dungeon just to grief the person who got the drop.
-However, I feel that should the party still succeed in completing raid after this occurs, it will not be a problem. 1 person missing out of 24 is not much.
-People randomly disconnecting or getting 90k error could prevent a group from finishing the content. However, as of patch 2.1, there will also be a afk-kick timer, d/c timer, and vote-to-kick put into place so this really shouldn't be a problem and I guarantee that plenty of people will be queuing up for "Party in Progress" for the myth bonus alone so replacing people won't be too hard either.
-The only other downside I can think of right now is people not being able to use the new drop they got while still in the dungeon. However, this is just part of the system and will be something to look forward to having once you have successfully completed the raid as a team.

If you think about it, in any regular RPG, you can go into a high-level dungeon and get all kinds of drops. However, if you don't actually clear the dungeon or find a save point before you die (which, as more tier's of content are added to this area, every individual "tier" where you leave and re-enter could be considered as a "Save Point,") you don't get to keep whatever you found on the way. The more I think about this, the more I like it.

[Axidrain]

well it seems that u guys are not familiar with loot drop systems. okay. so basically if we dont have lockouts we will have RNG % drop rates. right now there are CONFIRMED loot drops from every dungeon. The only ones having lockouts currently are the higher tiered instances. now, let's talk RNG % drop rates. let's say we have 10% loot drop chance from an instance boss, thats a 10/100 chance something will drop. and lets just say that in that instance, weapons will drop for all classes. that's a 10/100 chance to get a drop from the boss and a 1/9 chance it will drop your specific item on top of that. i dont see how this will be more fun.


so now currently we have myth gear, and we have a chance to get allagan drops every week and on top of that, CONFIRMED loot from CT before locking you out. i think those numbers are much better than the the % drop system. this system is much much more forgiving than having RNG % drops. i swear with no lockouts with the current drop system we have in the game right now, i would probably get every class of mine geared in ilevel 90 in a month. or probably even less.

[RynaultB]

i swear with no lockouts i would probably get every class of mine geared in ilevel 90 in a month. or probably even less.

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

[Axidrain]

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

no i meant with the current loot drop system we have right now. no lockouts with current loot system is making things way too easy.

[Ri_ri]

I wonder if you ever played FFXI. I spent months trying to get a single piece of gear not to count I was in line for said item, which meant if it dropped I STILL had to wait for to drop a couple more times before I got it.

Your still playing fiddle to the RNG Gods now even with guaranteed drops, just listen to people complain about not seeing healing gear drop in Coil and they've been running it for weeks.

If they dropped lockouts then they would lower the chance of loot dropping to make up for everyone being able to go in as many times as they want. It could take you months to fully gear just one class. Maybe you didn't play back in 1.0 but trying to get Darklight gear was insanely terrible. Countless hours spent running there to see very few pieces ever drop.

Call me crazy but that's what I expect from a MMORPG, a huge time sink.

I don't mind other people getting ahead, if catching up doesn't means I have to wait so many weeks (simply wait, not try again if I'm up for it). The idea of everything, every new content or function, having a "timer" just to extend it scares me. It allows the developers to get lazy with the content. Just see Coil... that's a really poor excuse of a dungeon.

Having all the gear in the game won't matter if I can't run the dungeon anymore.

[RynaultB]

I Think this is has kind of turned off topic in a sense. This discussion has more turned into morals of lockouts.

In truth the sole reason for Lockouts is not to prevent bad behavior but to extent said content. If we could go in willy nilly all day every day we could literally burn through the endgame content within a week and be fully geared.

That creates a problem for the Devs as they look at it with wide eyes thinking they just burned through 3 months worth of content in a week and its still more than 2 months til the next set of content gets put out.

This is nothing new to MMOs but it is to the FF series... mostly. FFXI had lockouts it was only a bit of the endgame content that was affected by it. But those were short times only a couple of days

Dynamis the biggest example, Einherjar, Nyzul was another as it could only be entered as many times as you had allowances which replenished every so often. There were others but not much.

KSNM/BCNMs were kind of a lockout but only in the sense of having the seals farmed which took time. Similar to Taper farming back in 1.0.

Overall, the purpose and original intent and use for Lockouts are to keep people coming each week and to extend the content til the Devs can create the next patch. Nothing more to it, its not any but that nor is it anything close to trying to define the natural of God or whether he exists or not.

Plain and Simple.