How to release raid content for both casual and hard core players every patch.

[Zumocano]

But they only put in 2 hours per week in FFXIV. That's far less than your average casual player. You don't make any sense.

So they put in 2 hours per week from launch and are complete ilvl 90, downed T5 and are bored? I'm talking about the players that do not stop playing at launch. I'm talking the players that put between 40-80 hours a week into the game at launch in order to be the world's first to beat a boss. Only because of that are they reduced to putting in only 2 hours a week. They blew through the content and are sad now that they have nothing to do. That's what happens at every launch. Come patch day, they're going to beat extreme mode in probably less than 2 days and be right back here complaining.

[Liander]

You quit? Yet you are still on here posting. Why do you care?

I'm sorry that my posting on a forum thread discussing dungeon and game design for a game I enjoyed and wanted more from is somehow causing your experience to suffer. I suggest closing the open forum and entering the game while covering your ears and yelling Buddhist chants to restore peace to you. Though if you'd like to engage in the topic at hand with any sense of intelligence feel free to do so.

As not a single point of mine has been refuted I'll just take the time to agree with Raikki. This game is like climbing a mountain with heavy clouds. You work hard and climb up and when you finally break through the clouds the mountain suddenly ends. There's nothing at the top. Nothing to collect, professions are very useless outside making a single relic weapon, all the gathering materials in the game are simple to get so there's nothing to work towards, dungeons are a mess and a half, raiding content is simple even when we're supposed to be heavily under geared for it, and finally the new patch gives us lots of weak content to supplement.

But you guys seem to be missing the point of the whole thread. If you enjoy the game, that's great, keep playing and have fun! For those who are not enjoying it this is a discussion on how SE could improve their development to include some decent content for us. All that content we're asking for is things you'd be able to play too, so there's not even a net loss for you.

Come patch day, they're going to beat extreme mode in probably less than 2 days and be right back here complaining.

Sure some people will. But anyone who's been in the game world very long understands content can only be created so quickly. The major problem with FF14 come from design choices and what they're focusing on. In no mmo world is 4 bosses of a dungeon an okay first patch when your game is already so barren. Ex.Primals are there I guess, rehashes of the same fight, but theres no real reason to do them but once and never go back if as the reports say the only drop a weapon equal to relic +1.

[permbanned]

So they put in 2 hours per week from launch and are complete ilvl 90, downed T5 and are bored? I'm talking about the players that do not stop playing at launch. I'm talking the players that put between 40-80 hours a week into the game at launch in order to be the world's first to beat a boss. Only because of that are they reduced to putting in only 2 hours a week. They blew through the content and are sad now that they have nothing to do. That's what happens at every launch. Come patch day, they're going to beat extreme mode in probably less than 2 days and be right back here complaining.

Ok so you're only talking about people going for world first on content. Then yeah, maybe they are only 1% of the playerbase. But what about those that took a casual approach at endgame, spent 20-40 hours at 2 hours a night on the hardest boss in the game, beat her and have nothing left to do now? It's still a progression-based play-style and there's still nothing left for them to do.

Are they nolifers too? Is it their fault they're bored? Because they didn't rush anything. And by the way, I'm willing to bet the majority that have cleared turn 5 and are bored now fall into this category.

[Zumocano]

If they're done with the linear progression and don't want to laterally progress (extreme modes, alt jobs, housing, etc.), then be bored. SE is gonna cater to the paycheck and not the small group of people that have cleared all the content and don't want to bother with all the other stuff.

If they need the challenge, I would suggest a different genre altogether. Nothing about any MMO is challenging in the least.

[SecsyMancat]

In the original post, all that he suggests be released is hardcore content, and then just nerf old content to make it casual, that's not releasing casual content, that is recycling old content for the casual playerbase.And Coil and Crystal Tower were both originally scheduled for 2.0 release, but they had to delay crystal tower to balance it for alliances, so to keep the order of progression Coil should have been delayed too, so sorry, it wasn't given to everyone early, it just wasn't delayed the way it should have been to keep a linear progression, the devs made the decision to go ahead and release it, ahead of progressive content (early), to keep the end game population busy.

Since this content is Hardcore, the casuals presumably would not have beaten it yet there for it would not be old or rehashed to them, just reworked to their difficulty level.Raiding in essence is linear, is progressive, and should be challenging. This topic solely discusses the raiding portion of the game. SE is of course adding much other content outside of the raiding portion of their game and they should continue doing this. This rework would not touch any of that other content but would simply rework the raiding timeline to allow for both casual and hardcore players to gain satisfaction from their released raiding content.
This approach has been used with much success starting in the WoW WOTL days when they released normal and hard mode difficulty levels. Even then the developers added a buff (In ICC) so that even more of their player base could experience the entirety of that raid in preparation for cataclysm. This type of system only becomes old and rehashed when it is done in the SWTOR style system:
Keep 2 raids at a time as current raiding content:
Make 3 difficulty levels for each with minor tweaks
Incorporate older raids as part of your token grind
This gets really old really quick when the dungeon you've progressed through becomes your next level of progression with minor tweaks.
By starting the raid hard and then reducing the difficulty 3-6 months later it keeps the raids fresh and hard for the higher progression players and once incorporated gives more casual player the chance to experience the same content.

[sheepysheepy]

This is my first real mmo so I dont have a grasp of what usually happens, but why do casuals need so much more content if they only play a few hours a week? all endgame content eventually becomes casual content so why do casuals get so annoyed when people talk about new dungeons and raids, it all trickles down eventually?

Release high lvl content = almost everyone plays it (in time)
Release lowbie content = a lot of people are already beyond it and dont need it

I dont understand why this sideways progression people talk about needs any new content at all, its already all there, its complete..

Must be hard being an mmo dev, wouldnt like that job..

[One_WingedAngel]

I am actually very interested what casual players do on a normal week, in fact what define casual? a few dungeon run a week without capping myth?

[PiedPiper]

If they're done with the linear progression and don't want to laterally progress (extreme modes, alt jobs, housing, etc.), then be bored. SE is gonna cater to the paycheck and not the small group of people that have cleared all the content and don't want to bother with all the other stuff.

If they need the challenge, I would suggest a different genre altogether. Nothing about any MMO is challenging in the least.

"Hardcores" as you call us all crave lateral progress, that's exactly the point here. Go ahead, check me, I have all combat and crafting 50's with 1/3 gatherer's 50. I'm pretty excited about earning gambler's crown soon.

My main class (paladin), however, is still my main class. Its where I grow vertically, and I am very limited in my chance to do so. After months of coil the three pieces I'm missing have never dropped for our group. Due to the loot lock out systems (coils weekly lock, Ct's future 1 item lock) I am very hamstringed. More over, my secondary classes are all stalled at i70. No matter how much content I want to participate in, there simply isn't any way for me to gear scholar. More over, there isn't really a way for me to enjoy the power of my paladin. I can't take it into the hard content to help others (we power through coil, the only place my gear matters, and then we are locked out of it).

I can't join coil with weaker teams, I can't grind CT (in fact, there is no point in getting sch gear in CT since by time I can earn it, I will have enough myth to just buy the i90). Now, I'm very excited for the hard mode rewards. This is a great boon to hardcores as it will help us get multiple classes turn 5 ready, allowing for more flexibility, and the ability to re-experience the content in new ways with new challenges (healing instead of tanking).

Casuals talk about the armory system, the whole point is to play everything! Well I have! But... what do I do with my other classes? I can't take them into coil cus I'm locked out of it. As much as I have already geared my 50s and done all this other content, there is no real incentive. Even if I could conjur full i90 gear for my scholar, the hardest thing I can take it to right now is Titan. My quin melded vanya is already plenty over geared for that. I would love it if they made it so the coil lockout was per class (you can enter once as paladin, once as scholar, etc, even if it was role based (once as tank, once as healer, once as dps). This would add content to hardcores (even the most dedicated of players have at most 2 i90 geared classes) as it would be a fun new challenge: can we clear bocb in our darklight classes? This would also give casuals/new players more groups to join (maybe only 6 our of 8 of the main team want to run again on off classes, poof two slots with top tier players just opened up).

The new hard mode dungeons all drop i60. Which, is kinda awful for both casuals and hardcores. At least if it was i70 they'd offer alternate secondary stats for better "bis @ 70" depth. While I'm excited to play the new dungeons, which ever ends up fastest will be the only one I consistently see, which is sad.

I really didn't rush. I preordered this game in 1.0. I got all of my combat class 50s except pgl and thm when physical level was a thing. Trust me, there was no rushing that.

I have a luminary, I think there is nothing less-rushy than that. I'm close to a second one just from normal play.

I am very close to the platinum, which by default means I've done just about all the content there is.

I really enjoy playing the market (despite what some people say, it is possible to make quite a lot via professions and there is a lot of depth there, depth which will improve greatly in 2.1 with PVP and housing.)

I agree that many people who cry about lack of content do probably still have a lot of non-repeditive content left to them (by this I mean luminaries and the such, that's not really content in any enjoyable sense. I can't blame most people for not wanting to do it, but there is lots of other stuff). But there are just as many "hardcores' that really have started to run out.

If you want to level slow, do content slowly, that's cool. I don't begrudge you that at all. And this thread isn't asking to hamstring that in any way.

The OP asked that all new raid content be tuned to be very hard when it is first release, and at the next patch be nerfed. This isn't selfish. This is a compromise. Casuals will also get content each patch (ex; 2.2 turns 1-5 will be nerfed. that's the same as releasing new content to casuals as it was, by many arguments here, previously unavailable to them) as will hardcores.

These games are challenging. They require team building and community maintenance. Look at any "hardcore' company and you'll find individuals that pour in hours to maintain and grow their community, their team. The challenge is in bringing the team together and motivating them to loose for hours on end. Housing will only deepen this and I look forward to it.

I dont understand why this sideways progression people talk about needs any new content at all, its already all there, its complete..

You're exactly right, the content is there. I've never gotten to do 1-4 on anything but paladin, and would love ot, but I can't. Because of the entry lock out, I never get to enter on anything but my main class, and to do so would be selfish. Why make my team use a lesser geared tank than mine so I can use my healer which has less gear than our normal healer? Repeating the relic quest all 8 times was great fun, each fight felt a little different and fresh for that reason. Titan is way different on monk than scholar. Its even radically different on scholar and white mage.

Many casuals point to the loot lock outs as adding depth, but really, I think they hurt casuals the most. Take titan. Personally, I have all relics. I also have all but one titan drop. Really, no reason for me to go there except one: helping others. I'm really good at the fight. I now have that skill, that proficiency level. I'm level 50 in Titan Killing. Say a casual or new player joins my FC and needs help, they're, maybe a level 5 Titan Killier. I can go help them, this is very rewarding to me and many others like me. I show up in awesome gear and with great know how and we help others. That same person goes to coil, and there is nothing I can do for them. All my loot does for me in coil is help me win with the other members of my team who all equally have mastery over the content. At least with CT i'll be able to help.. but they've made it sound like it will be quite easy so that will be fairly trivial (just providing a body to fill the slot).

I'm not a no-lifer either. I have a real job, I have a beautiful girl friend, I have friends, I play sports. I go out. This is just my hobby.

"There is plenty of content, just go do it. " You're right, there is plenty of content, SE Just won't let us do it. Because of the armory system, every new fight is really 8 new pieces of content. Playing each class on each fight offers unique challenges, but because of the lockout in coil, what could be 8x the content is limited to 1x. It would easily take the 2-3 months (or even 4-6 between 'hard' patches) to do coils 1-5 enough on every class to gear them up if the lock out was changed to one entry per class.

[Megido]

Even just being able to take 2 different classes into Coil each week would be great. Not sure if a lot of people really want to do it that many times to gear up every alt, and whats the point of all 8 of them? There's only 7 days in a week lol. Also a developer has to think about not putting too much pressure on his players, make sure people dont feel too rushed or forced to spam high end raids every day.
Sure it would double myth + coil loot, but the coil loot could have a system like CT is getting, and they have been talking about increasing mytho cap anyway. But it would double replayability.

Oh and totally agree with OP. Nerfed hardcore content = fresh new casual content

[PiedPiper]

Even just being able to take 2 different classes into Coil each week would be great. Not sure if a lot of people really want to do it that many times to gear up every alt, and whats the point of all 8 of them? There's only 7 days in a week lol. Also a developer has to think about not putting too much pressure on his players, make sure people dont feel too rushed or forced to spam high end raids every day.
Sure it would double myth + coil loot, but the coil loot could have a system like CT is getting, and they have been talking about increasing mytho cap anyway. But it would double replayability.

Oh and totally agree with OP. Nerfed hardcore content = fresh new casual content

I think allowing us three separate lock outs based on role (healer/tank/dps) for each week would not increase pressure on players. For those players who only care about one or two classes, this will result in no more need to play.For those players that crave me opportunity to challenge endgame with different classes and different groups this will open up more possibilities.

I also strongly believe it will make coil more accessible to casuals and new players. Right now, a new player joining my FC will never run coil with me, my group is set in stone, as are the other 5 teams. They have to wait for a new team with equally new players to form and progress all on their own. By allowing entry per role, they could find spots in the second and third runs (as not everyone in my team will want to do it three times, or even have the classes to do it). More people doing the content more often = more opportunity to do it. This would help bridge the gap between casuals and hardcores.


If you support the idea of coil lockout being based on combat role (I think per class would be excessive, but per role is a nice balance) please help bring attention to it in an effort to get a dev response!